Fearing for lives, Jews in France flee

The Detroit News ^ | January 17 2003 | Jocelyn Gecker/AP

[knighthawk]

PARIS -- Jewish parents tell their sons not to wear yarmulkes. A rabbi is stabbed. Elderly women are frisked before entering synagogues -- just in case. As the stresses of being Jewish in France multiply, some feel it safer to hide their religion. Others have decided the only solution is to pack up and leave -- more than twice as many as a year earlier, according to statistics by the Jewish Agency.

[Republic of Texas]

" Fanatic anti semitism is almost inexistant in the "real" french population. Those who actually attack jews are 99% muslims. "

That may be true, but France is rapidly becoming a Muslim nation. It won't be long before France is ruled by Muslim law.

[Republic of Texas]

Mormons DO require their children to marry Mormons. If some don't, that is a different matter.

[f.Christian]

Now the civilized world is a samman rushdie (( satanic verses fame )) under attack // jihad . . .
and I don't blame the Jews or Israel - - -

I thank them ! ! !

[gitmo]

That's a very thoughtful analysis. But, how would that differ from, say, the black population in the US?

A large part of the black population tries to maintain a distinct culture, and ostracize those who act "white" or who succeed in the "white world". They try to take on an african culture, even if they have to make it up.

Likewise, the American Indian population largely stays isolated, even maintaining their own nations inside the confines of the US.

And now we're seeing a spanish-speaking population coming in. They are not learning the local language, and spanish signs and menus are popping up everywhere in the country.


The only difference I see is that the Jewish population doesn't ask for special government considerations. No one is asking for reparations, for special consideration in job or school applications, etc.

[BrooklynGOP]

Your pseudo-analysis is not based on factual information. If anything Jews were prevented from assimilating by those amongst whom they tried living. Note that Jews assimilate rather well in a free society (USA).

[mdmathis6]

Satan would like to see the whole line from Abraham eliminated, for that would set God's promises to Abraham at nought, threatening the very reliability of God's authority. Jew haters are being used as pawns in Satan's extirmination attempt!

[Hank Kerchief]

In fact the CRIF was created by the french jews themselves during the WW2 occupation. So it's first goal was to save the jews of the northern occupied zone. With this organisation and the support of non jews (some christians, priests, etc ...)75% of the french jews survived.

While I am unfamiliar with the CRIF, I have Jewish friends who "lived" in France during the occupation. They survived, but it was at a terrible cost, having to be in hiding the entire time. Some starved, others subsisted on diets such as carrots or mushrooms. One of my friends is deaf as a result to nutritional problems. If it had not been for the brave French who hid and protected my Jewish friends, they would not have survived at all.

Your evaluation of the Muslim threat to France, (and all of Europe for that matter) is not at all exagerrated. The Muslims have no intention of being, "integrated," and will not be satisfied until they have established Shari'a law everywhere. My point is that they cannot be stopped by caving in to their threats and demands, which is what France is doing. The Muslims need to be resisted everywhere because they are a threat to much more than just the Jews.

- the historical precedents of the arabs, even in minority, who were able to take control of wider cultures. Their religioin and law codes are perfect for it. To me islam is basically a super sect but with a fair amount of prehistorical anachronism. Weren't the arabs basically just camel breeders and caravan rogues?

It is a little more complex than that, but not much. It is obvious you are familiar with Muslim teaching ("worst half of the Koran, the Medinian trend..."). If you have not read it, you might find the following interesting:

The Sword of the Prophet by Serge Trifkovic? I highly recommend it. Oriana Fallaci's The Rage and The Pride is fun too.

Hank

[VOA]

The day that things are not so good, they(jews) pull up and leave. The jews are despised
in a way that is very similar to the way that townies despise the college kids in
a small college town.

This may be true in a fair amount of the history of the Jewish Diaspora.

But, there is one fairly noticeable counter-example.
The Jews of Europe did give it a fairly good go at assimilating into
their adopted countries during the 1800s and early 1900s...only to eventually become
scapegoats again and lose property and often life.

While a fair number escaped the coming debacle, a large number tried "to hang in there"
and paid dearly for it.

I remember reading about how Henry Kissinger's mother had to convince her husband that
"it's time to get out of Germany" in the 1930s...because Kissinger's father had
become so "German" that he could not believe what was happening could last (or get worse).

While I agree that Jews generally do hold themselves apart from a lot of societies
they've been in during the Diaspora, saying that is a reason for their being disliked/hated
is understandable...but saying it's the reason they were murdered is edging
toward a "blame the victim" analysis... (in my opinion)

[Ditto]

Why?

Convenient scapegoats. When people have made their own life and culture an open sewer they don't want to blame themselves. They need to blame someone else.

[Hank Kerchief]

BTW please stop bashing France stupidly and be a bit more positive. Checking french forums, even those of the left, it's easy to see that a sound reaction is deeply growing in France.

If by, "bashing France," you mean bashing the French people, it is only part of them I am bashing, those who support French government policy and PC multicuturalism. It is these people who have allowed the very problem you and others are resisting to exist. It is these people who castigated Oriana Filacci and others who are warning about the Muslim threat.

I'm sorry if I offended you with any of my opinions, since we are agreed about the nature of the threat. I am not at all convinced the French government, media, or intellectuals have yet discovered it. They haven't in this country, and I make the same criticisms of the USA.

Hank

[rmvh]

Re your # 146...You may say what you want about America...Nonetheless, it is still the greatest power on Earth, a benevolent one at that, and the essential reason the French have a free country today.

Also, the Vichy French were of direct aid to Hitler in WWII...It is an undeniable fact of history.

Secretary Hull, under President Roosevelt presented the follwing to the French Ambasador in 1941:

It seemed scarcely believable, he said, that the French Government should adopt a policy of collaboration with other powers for the purpose of aggression and oppression; such action would not only be yielding priceless rights and interests beyond the requirements of a harsh armistice, but would at once place France in substantial political and military subservience and would also make France in part an instrument of aggression; this could only be "utterly inimical to the just rights of other countries, to say nothing of its ultimate effects on the liberties, the true interests, and the welfare of the people of France".

Please have a very nice day over there in France.

[mamelukesabre]

NO, they do not assimilate well in america. They assimilate only as much as necessary to do business with the non jews. Other than that, non jews are outsiders to them.

I saw a show on PBS about a year ago about a group of big city east coast jews that bought an unused meat processing plant in a small town in iowa to produce kosher meats. When the jews began arriving, the town people were excited about the economic activity, and the new people that were moving in in droves. Well, the big city jews snubbed them, and ignored the small town hospitality and pretended like the non jews didn't exist. They boycotted all the pre existing stores and shops and opened up their own and then treated the non jews rudely. Then they(the jews) began attracting hordes of mexicans for cheap labor. The town quickly turned into 3 separate communities that really disliked eachother.

[mamelukesabre]

I wasn't around in WWII or prior. So I only know what I read.

The accepted explanation of why hitler's anti jewish policies were welcomed by the germans and the poles, is that the jews refused to participate in civic and military activities. The average citizen was angered by the jew's refusal to fight to defend the "homeland" even though it was painfully obvious that the jews were reaping the greatest rewards of their nation's economy. The average citizen, having strong feelings of pride and nationalism, would naturally dislike these people. The average german would naturally conclude that they were sending their children off to die so that the jew's children could live in the lap of luxury while at the same time having contempt for those that are sacrificing for them!

Your post seems to contradict what I've read.

[mamelukesabre]

I think in third world countries, muslims are not so stigmatized. Muslims recruit. Muslims do not shut people out....unless they refuse to convert to islam.

Jews not only refuse to convert to your faith, but they also refuse to convert you to their faith. You are automatically an outsider and there is no way around it. To jews, only those that are born jews matter.


Of course, I am overstating my point here. It is not as extreme as this. But there is this about the jewish faith and culture that very exclusive.

[mamelukesabre]

I agree with your final statement.

I hope you aren't saying that you think I was saying that the jew's "got what they deserved"....in WWII. I was not.