Human cloning: it's the soul, stupid

townhall ^ | January 4, 2003 | David Limbaugh

[TLBSHOW]

Human cloning: it's the soul, stupid

Regardless of whether a cloned human being was actually born as claimed, our society should use this disturbing report constructively by hastening our ethical evaluation of human cloning.

If the Raelien cult's claim is false, it's only a matter of time before it happens. After all, the Raeliens are not the only ones engaged in this horrifying enterprise. A fertility clinic in Italy and an embryology laboratory in Kentucky also claim to be close.

Brigitte Boisselier, president of Clonaid, the human cloning company engineering this process, appears to be right out of "The Addams Family" or "Munsters" TV series. And the Raelien cult, with which Boisselier is associated, believes that the human race was begun by extraterrestrials some 25,000 years ago. But we shouldn't let the comical aspects of this insanity overshadow its grave implications.

In all seriousness, just who do we think we are? Are we so self-absorbed as a species; have we become so coarse, so vulgar, so narcissistic that we can't recognize that our scientific capacity exponentially exceeds our moral maturity? Shouldn't we come to grips with where we've put God in this equation?

While we may have made scientific advancements of godlike proportions, there is one of God's prerogatives we'll never have the remotest license to, and that is His authority over our souls. We should fear His judgment as we erect the ultimate Tower of Babel in usurping His sovereign power to create humankind by duplicating babies as if from a Xerox copy machine.

When are we going to take the time to have this moral discussion? A perfect illustration of how casually we've approached this subject is that the one body claiming to have authority over the legality of cloning is the federal Food and Drug Administration (FDA). I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I read that this paragon of unelected bureaucracies, the FDA, contends that it is the body that must approve any procedure aimed at human cloning.

The more scientific advancements we make, the greater will be the temptation to ignore their moral consequences, because these advancements will bring seductive promises of ever-increasing benefits to the human condition.

Our opinions on this issue will emanate from our respective worldviews. Since I am a Christian I won't presume to speak for others, but my understanding of the Bible compels me to conclude that human cloning is utterly violative of God's law. Other Christians may disagree.

The Bible reveals that God created us in His image and that He desires a personal relationship with us. We cannot attain a relationship with Him without humbling ourselves and surrendering to Him. By creating human life through cloning we have done just the opposite in the grossest imaginable outworking of human pride and the greatest conceivable affront to God. We have not only put other gods before Him; we have made ourselves those gods.

The Clonaid group says its purpose is to achieve immortality by creating carbon copies of humans, then "uploading" the contents of the original person's brain into the clone. Nothing better demonstrates their contrasting worldview.

Aside from the fantastic notion that they can upload brain contents and personal experiences from one brain to another ala Arnold Schwarzenegger in the movie "Total Recall," how are they going to create a true continuity of consciousness? What happens when two identical beings coexist? How do they avoid the pain and horror of repeated physical death in their little immortality scenario?

Much more significantly, they are neglecting that little detail we refer to as the soul. Cloning advocates such as Clonaid can't possibly believe in the biblical concept that God creates unique human souls in His own image. Even assuming they can precisely duplicate a human being physically, what about his spiritual aspect? Will he/it have a soul? This is humanism at its most obscene. We are just masses of tissue to be manipulated and reformulated at will -- our will.

When the God of the Bible tells us through the prophet Jeremiah, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart," I think He's referring to our souls, our essences, not our yet to be fully formed brains. It is a chilling thought that His Jeremiah statement may not apply to beings that He did not form in the womb but that human scientists did.

We better quit ignoring these pressing moral issues, because we can be sure that science is not going to wait for us to catch up.

[MonroeDNA]

If life begins at conception, is a clone life?

[BenLurkin]

A clone is a twin born late. Just as there is no question that both twins born together have souls so alsodo twins born as "clones".

[BenLurkin]

A clone is a twin born late. Just as there is no question that both twins born together have souls so also do twins born as "clones".

[go star go]

Yes. A clone is life and it is human life. I'll leave the soul stuff to the true believers.

[RHINO369]

Well it would have a soul because assuming god has total control he allowed it to happen, u could even make the case he wants it to happen although this is a dangerous slope we are slipping down. Rent teh movie GATICA it is about a America were all children are gentically picked to be superior, and one man who was concieved naturally who fights to live his dream. Its really good

[dpwiener]

So why can't we also clone souls? Even if the technology isn't yet available today, that doesn't mean it won't be developed in the future. After all, fifty years ago a person would have been laughed at for seriously suggesting that human beings could be cloned. Yet now we've done so (or, more likely, will soon do so).

Cloning is the obvious soulution to all the bitching about "souless technology".

[Consort]

Mind Uploading Home Page.

[Polycarp]

Cloning advocates such as Clonaid can't possibly believe in the biblical concept that God creates unique human souls in His own image. Even assuming they can precisely duplicate a human being physically, what about his spiritual aspect? Will he/it have a soul?

I do not think it will have a human soul.

God is not a genie in a bottle that our physical manipulations of cloning can conjure forth and force to create a soul when by our monstrosities we happen to create a physical body.

If it lives, however, it must be animated by a spiritual force.

If no human soul is provided by God, then another opportunistic animating force will fill the vacuum.

My personal opinion is that clones will not have a human soul but will be perfectly demonically possessed, though I have never heard an educated guess from a Catholic well versed in these matters.

Catholic Caucus, any thoughts?

[Petronski]

I know of no Catholic teaching that would tell us it would not have a soul, and I do not believe God would withhold a soul from a being because of the sins of it's 'engineers.'

Test-tube babies have souls, yet in vitro fertilization is contrary to Catholic doctrine.

[jennyp]

Oh man, Limbaugh is so off-base...

1. And the Raelien cult, with which Boisselier is associated, believes that the human race was begun by extraterrestrials some 25,000 years ago. But we shouldn't let the comical aspects of this insanity overshadow its grave implications.

   Insanity? The Raelians believe in Intelligent Design, the up to date version of respectable-sounding creationism. What's not to like?

2. There is no such thing as a "soul" - not if he means some kind of supernatural organ that gets assigned to us when we're conceived (or when we kick our mommy for the first time, or whenever). The soul is an unnecessary reification of the abstract concept of our identity & consciousness. It's a similar conceptual error to the anthropomorphism that turns God into an old man on a throne in the clouds.

   The important thing is, the clone is a person, just like us.

3. It's "The Sixth Day", not "Total Recall".

Well, OK, transferring your thoughts & memories into another brain would not transfer your self. It would only make a copy, and the person (the collection of thoughts & memories) in that clone's body would be effectively killed, and you'd still be here stuck in your dying body. That would be murder, and a pointless one at that.

It'd be like having your cerebrum surgically removed from your cerebellum and transplanted into the clone's brain. You'd have a leftover cerebrum from the clone which would be destroyed. Obviously murder.

And yes, Brigitte Boisselier does look like a puffed up version of a combined clone of Morticia & Lily.

[Polycarp]

The soul begins at conception. There is no coming together of egg and sperm with cloning procedures.

Neither is cloning a "late twin."

With twins, the entire early cell structure splits completely in half, and it is a natural process. However, the twinning process does call into question whether clones might have a soul (mitigating in favor of this view.)

Cloning involves taking a complete set of living DNA code from the cell of an adult and placing it within the mechanisms of an unfertilized egg, after the 1/2 DNA code of the unfertilized egg has been removed.

This complete set of living DNA code, under the influence of hormonal and chemical baths, then takes over the cellular mechanism of the host egg and replicates in a fashion similar to that of a fertilized egg.

However, it is simply a cell line continuation of the donor's cell's DNA, in this case replicating in a viable egg.

At no point did this life begin.

I'd like to hear from a moral theologian on this. I'm probably wrong, but I do not believe such cloning is even possible, I do not believe it has indeed happened, and if it does, I still doubt it will have a new human soul.

God is not our little genie that we manipulate and call forth from his genie bottle at our whim and pleasure.

[jennyp]

So why can't we also clone souls?

Hmmm... since we can't actually detect the existence of a soul apart from the conscious human being whom it supposedly "animates"...

Why yes, I can clone a soul. My associates and I have perfected the process, and we have a patent pending. And I'll send you a prospectus for the company, SoulAid (OTCBB:SOULSRUS), giving you a ground floor opportunity for just a $1,000 investment. You'd be nuts to pass this up!

[jennyp]

Test-tube babies have souls, yet in vitro fertilization is contrary to Catholic doctrine.

Not only that, but many of those sextuplets & septuplets were conceived by parents who had taken fertility drugs. These clones aren't naturally occurring either.

Then again, there's another market for SoulAid. If there's only one soul to go around... :-)

[B-Chan]

A clone is an identical twin -- not an artificial being or android. Just as a natural twin is genetically identical to its counterpart, so too is the clone. The only difference is that the twin is created by the natural sexual activity of two persons, while a clone is artificially created from the DNA of a single individual.

In a sense, cloning is the ultimate form of masturbation -- a self-centered act of pleasure, utterly devoid of passion, and ultimately narcissistic. The fact that such a horrific practice is fundamentally disordered goes without saying.

[jennyp]

With twins, the entire early cell structure splits completely in half, and it is a natural process. However, the twinning process does call into question whether clones might have a soul (mitigating in favor of this view.)

But why would both the twins have souls in the first place? Or does each twin get 1/2 a soul, since they split off from the original (soul-equipped) fertilized egg? Not to mention triplets, quads, quints, sexts, septs... You yourself said that the soulless clone would probably get a soul implanted by (apparently) Satan. Why don't you think this happens with identical twins, etc.?

(Come to think of it, my niece Julie does give my sister a lot more trouble than does her twin, Diana... :-)

[JoeA]

No, it is Total Recall.

[jennyp]

In a sense, cloning is the ultimate form of masturbation -- a self-centered act of pleasure, utterly devoid of passion, and ultimately narcissistic. The fact that such a horrific practice is fundamentally disordered goes without saying.

But how is that (procreation divorced from intercourse) any different from in vitro fertilization?

[JoeA]

I't not PROcreation, (if I may stick my nose into your conversation), it's duplication, which is not the same thing. To consider the ultimate results, while for the moment discounting the moral issue, look at what happens when a gene pool is not refreshed by new infusions. Take a gander at the inbred Hapsburg dynasty of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The later family members begin to look less than human.

[Polycarp]

Actually, I was equivocating:

clones might have a soul (mitigating in favor of this view.)

In other words I said that since twins obviously have souls, clones might also.

probably get a soul implanted by (apparently) Satan

Ah...definitely not what I said. Nature abhors a vacuum. There is a place in the human structure for a spiritual soul alongside its physical parts.

If this place is not filled by God with a soul, which is a big IF then that human structure might be possessed by a demonic spirit, as the human structure will not function without some animating spirit (or "soul.")