Bless you too, my dear friend!!!!!
Posted on 12/20/2002 10:10:51 AM PST by Behind Liberal Lines
SAVANNAH NY- A ban on smoking has snuffed the life out of their D&S Diner, Susan and Doug Devall say. The owners of the village's only diner, one of the few businesses on Main Street, say they will close for good Dec. 29. They blame Wayne County's no-smoking law, which passed in January.
We'd still be here, Doug Devall said, if the law hadn't passed.
The couple opened the diner in August 2000, after a string of businesses failed at the same location. Although the diner didn't turn a profit in its first year, the two expected to operate in the black the second year. Then the no-smoking law sent that goal go up in smoke. Nearby Cayuga County has no ban on smoking in restaurants, so the Devalls figure much of their business went to light up elsewhere. That took 30 percent of the customers right out of here, Doug Devall said.
Sales were down $3,000 in July 2002 compared to July 2001. Hardest hit were on Friday nights and Sunday mornings.
The couple had the option of converting an extra room into a smoking room, but the cost of installing ventilation, sealing doors and other measures was too much. Meanwhile, the two sympathized with their smoking customers and let them indulge under the counter, so to speak.
If it's not busy in here, I will let people smoke. I'm not going to lose my business, Susan Devall said soon after the law went into effect.
The decision to allow smoking or not should be left up to the individual business owner, Doug Devall said. Restaurant owners should be able to choose whether their establishment will be smoking or non-smoking.
The bottom line
Most of them are crying their eyes out because we're closing, but I can't keep robbing Peter to pay Paul, he said. The bottom line: He needs around $800 a day to survive, said the couple. It's the days when less than $100 comes in and then the propane truck pulls in and there's a $400 bill to pay, those are the days that hurt, he said.
This stuff is going to backfire on politicians, come back and bite them on the ass, Doug said, referring not only to the smoking laws but to the high taxes and other regulations that New York state imposes on small businesses. Workman's compensation, disability, unemployment, liability -- the cost of insurance is extremely high for a small business that employs two full-time and three part-time people.
Absolutely, said Sandy Brownell, when asked whether the new smoking laws have hurt many small restaurants like the D & S Diner.
Brownell is a saleswoman for Palmer Distributing, which is based in Newark. It's hard for them to make it in New York state because of the insurance regulations and the taxes as well, she said. I see it a lot, more than I wish to, she said about the closing.
Brownell is a smoker herself, and said whether she could light up or not weighed into her decision on where to eat.
Not just customers
It's the customers Susan will miss the most, especially the regulars. In a small place like this, though -- one of the few places for people to gather in Savannah -- most of the customers are regulars. In fact, several people sitting at the counter Thursday afternoon, after the lunch rush, had the look of regulars about them.
It's like art work for you, said Jackie Shurtleff, placing Leon Waldron's grilled ham and cheese sandwich in front of him.
Waldron comes to the diner at least once a day, usually to shoot the crap with all the guys in the morning and to pick on everyone.
So where will Waldron go after the new year?
Nowhere it seems.
I'm still coming here, they just don't know that yet, he said.
Tim Carmon, who works in Savannah and drops by at least three times a week for lunch, also hates to see them go.
Shurtleff is Sue's sister, as well as one of the diner's employees. She's worked at the diner since the day it opened.
Both of these facts make the closing an extremely emotional event for her as well as her sister. Upsetting was how she described the upcoming closing -- the simplicity of the words belied the complicated emotions felt.
Before he started working part-time at the diner, Randy Brown would come in with his father for lunch. Off duty Thursday afternoon, he sat at the counter eating what Jackie euphemistically called a concoction -- a Philly sandwich with extra cheese plus pickles, potato chips, and ketchup -- all on the sandwich, not on the side.
Brown has another part-time job at Pearl Technologies, but will miss the good atmosphere at the diner.
It's the environment that will be missed even more than the food. Mrs. Nobel, a Savannah resident whom Shurtleff described fondly as a fixture, has been coming to the diner morning and noon since it opened.
Nobel said the diner has the same friendly, pleasant extended family feeling as when Betty Kelly owned the building and operated a luncheonette there more than 20 years ago.
Nobel doesn't think there will be another business opening in the space anytime soon though -- a great loss for the village.
The diner will be sorely missed on Main Street, which has more empty storefronts than full ones. A couple of bars, a hair salon, a convenience store/gas station, the town hall. Given the limited amount of amenities and services available in this hamlet, most residents head to Seneca Falls or Auburn for basic necessities and entertainment.
This exodus will seemingly continue.
Future plans
There will be an auction in January, and then the Devalls will try to lease the space. Since they own the building, which has apartments upstairs, the couple's connection with the hamlet won't be totally severed.
Drink beer and raise hell, Doug said, when asked about his plans for the future. His contracting business will continue to take up most of his time.
But ultimately it's Sue, at the diner just about every day, who'll miss and be missed the most. Her husband joked his wife would be able to enjoy a stretch of being Suzy Homemaker.
Based on Sue's response to that suggestion, it doesn't seem likely.
Although the couple got smoked out of Savannah, figuratively speaking, Sue hasn't been totally burnt by the restaurant business. But she would consider something closer to home and in a higher traffic area, she said. In fact, with an eye on the future, the couple is tentatively keeping an eye on a place in Weedsport.
But the 29th is going to be pretty hard, Sue said.
Death is not always peaceful. My mom was an alcoholic and died from liver disease. The pain drove her crazy. She finally went into seizures and died. Death is not always easy, I am afraid. No matter what we do or do not do.
Bars and restaurants that serve liquor have always been required to buy a license to sell. Smoking, on the other hand, has been a legal commodity to enjoy. Why should a business owner have to now make concession with the government to allow smoking? They install huge smoke eaters. That should be concession enough.
My Mom's end was peaceful, fortunately. The doctors saw to that for us. I was talking about when she was smoking and "enjoying" her smokes.
I know, Ming. But you wanted her to quit so bad, and I wanted Mom to quit drinking. But......people do what they want to do, and it's out of our control. I know how bad you feel, because I feel that same.
It's true. Thanks, my FRiend ! Bless you...
Bless you too, my dear friend!!!!!
That's correct. People were tired of your little elemetary school game of "guess my postions". Now that you have stated them, and people see how shallow and moronic they are, they will reject your advice out of hand.
Your position is essentially that you don't like smokers and you think they will lose their rights. You seem to think if they didn't act in a way you deem impolite that they might win the debate.
Ok, now that we have recieved this "great truth", which could have been said in the 1st post on the subject 20 threads ago, go away. Your message isn't important, it's dumb. Maybe that's why you danced around it for months.
So stick it in your ear, Who cares what you think? You made your moronic point, now go chase your tail elsewhere, everyone here knows you have been exposed for the goof you truly are. Hundreds and hundreds of posts to say you don't like smokers. Moronic
Your comments here are not unreasonable given that you've been taught to believe shs is a deadly danger. Please understand, though, that what you believe is not correct. Every single study ever done--except one--on environmental tobacco smoke shows a statistically insignificant result of exposure to shs/ets even after 40 years of working AND living with smokers. This is fact. It's true that a small percentage of the population have extreme adverse reactions to shs. That is also fact. That those people should have smokefree places to patronize is a given, and if the market is allowed to work as it always does, that would be a done deal. If the 75% of the population that doesn't smoke were clamoring for smokefree restaurants and bars, business owners would be providing them voluntarily and those businesses that have been forced to go smokefree wouldn't be suffering. They are--another fact.
Smokers do NOT want to smoke "anywhere and everywhere." That's a made-up soundbyte directly from the anti-smoker handbook. We understand that many people simply do not like smoke, for whatever reason, and we don't want to be in places we are not welcome. However, there is no reason on earth that we, the most inventive, entrepreneurial country that's ever existed, cannot find a fair way to accommodate everyone.
Your claims of money grab, 30% loss of sales, restauants closing, are pathetic straw men or just crying wolf.
"Patrick White, owner of Fiddler's Green on San Francisco's Fisherman's Wharf, said he feels sorry for Delaware bar owners for what they are about to endure. "They're foolish people to do that," White said when told of the new law.
"White owned nine bars in California until the law went into effect there. He now has four. Fiddler's Green was sued by the city when smokers continued to light up despite the law. White fought the suit until his legal fees reached $120,000. Then he gave up." --The News Journal, 05/17/2002
"When Arvin City Manager Tom Payne's bar caught the attention of public health officials, he considered closing it or retiring from his city position so he could work full time at the bar in an effort to receive an exemption from California's no-smoking laws.
"Before the controversy, Payne said he had about 60 to 75 patrons per day. After the smoking issue arose, the number decreased to 50 to 60 people per week. Payne said he is losing money, but he is not ready to quit. "I can't afford to continue losing money like this, but I don't want to be driven out by a regulation like that," he said."--The Bakersfield Californian, February 17, 2002
"WEIMAR, Calif., May 11 -- Suzy Thompson, a former bartender who has seen the decimation of her industry as a result of California's statewide smoking ban, is using her newly acquired free-time to plan a protest at the State Capitol in Sacramento."
"ESCONDIDO, Calif., May 11 -- Ray Alto, owner of the Fireside Lounge, immediately noticed the negative effects of California's statewide smoking ban on his establishment. Since January 1, the day the ban took effect, revenues at the Fireside have been on a downward slope. "I kept hearing that the drop-off in business would be temporary and that non-smokers would be coming out in droves to frequent my establishment, but that's just not happening," said Alto. As revenues plummeted 70%, it became obvious that non-smoking customers were not going to replace his smoking clientele. Consequently, Alto had to lay off three employees in order to stay in business."
"LANCASTER, Calif., May 11 -- As the smoking ban indiscriminately takes its toll on California's bars and taverns, the Calico Saloon is no exception to the perils of this unnatural disaster. The small bar in Lancaster has experienced more than 30% in decreased revenues which forced the staff to downsize by nearly half."
"SACRAMENTO, Calif., April 30 -- A survey released by the American Beverage Institute found California bar and tavern owners have lost an average of 26% of their revenues since the smoking ban went into effect January 1. In addition to lost revenues, more than 50% of those surveyed noted an increase in angry customers which resulted in decreased tips and increased barroom conflicts"
"CALIFORNIA, March 12 -- In an opinion editorial published in the Siskiyou Daily News on March 12, former U.S. Secretary of Agriculture, John Block, criticized California's smoking ban claiming that it infringes upon the rights of small business owners and challenges freedom of choice. The headline read: "California's smoking ban probably more harmful than smoke itself."
"Block claimed that while the law was intended to protect employees, "it will only harm many hard-working Americans." He also stated: "Quite simply, the ban brings into question the things that make America great -- the freedom to make individual choices and the option to participate in a healthy free enterprise system." Block continued: "...bar and tavern owners rely on the preferences of their customers. The smoking ban strips these business people of the freedom to allocate their resources to meet their patrons' needs rather than the needs of the government and advocates of a smoking ban." Block concluded: "... the ban on smoking is a step down the path to over-regulation and anti-business attitude. The government needs to get its priorities straight."
"ONTARIO, Calif., May 7 -- Joe Costa, co-owner of Royal Cut, an elegant restaurant and bar, is disgruntled with the smoking ban. Costa feels that in addition to encroaching upon bar revenues, the smoking ban is also an infringement upon a citizen's right to choose how he or she wishes to live their life. Since January 1, Costa's bar has lost 24% of its business as a direct result of the smoking ban. Costa explains that he had to restructure his bar by laying off his cocktail waitress and cutting back the amount of hours his bartender works."
Yes, smoking bans are good for business in California, alright.
"...the San Francisco Department of Public Health's Tobacco Free Project recently found only 40% of stand-alone bars to be in compliance with California Assembly Bill 13..."--Prevention Research Center, October 27, 2002
When I "cry wolf," there really is one.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive."
-- C. S. Lewis
Would it hurt you to simply not patronize this restaurant?
In this case the market is using regulation to hasten something that will occur anyways in the long run and by doing it with regaultion its a way for the least amount of shakeup to the existing businesses.
The gun banners make the exact same argument. Eventually an "enlightened society" would not use guns or smoke tobacco. So, we should hasten it along by banning said guns or tobacco.
You haven't proved a positive. Finding one case out of 50 states over the past couple hundred years that supports a single solitary case that says the state cannot legislate smoking restrictions might give your otherwise unsuportable legal analysis some weight.
In law its not called proving a negative. Its called precedent. Without it you are creating new law.
I have no interest in debating you now that your have made your point. Your point was inane, and so are you. Stop pretending you have a different point.
If you want to debate rights and powers on a different thread with different subject matter, I'd be happy to disabuse you of your goofy ideas there, not here. I'm not giving you cover to continue you goofy attack on people who smoke.
No, I agree but I still have the right to attempt to sway the restuarant to my liking just as you do.
This is how I managed to get our local McDonalds to go smoke free before they made it policy. My kid has asthma and couldn't stay in the restaurant when a smoker sat right next to us on his side of the non-smoking restaurant. I left there dragging my child out who was in tears that he couldn't stay inside.
When that incident occured I vowed I would at least do something about it in my small town. I wrote letters to the company and asked them why a child couldn't stay and eat where Ronald McDonald was.vEither build a true nonsmoking section or ban it.
I copied those letters to the newspapers and got other neighbors and friends to do the same. Within a few weeks the restaurant decided to make it fully nonsmoking.
Do everyone a favor on the next smoking thread, just make your first post as, "I hate smokers" and go away, you will save Robinson a lot of bandwidth.
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