Posted on 12/05/2002 2:04:54 PM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
My ears might have deceived me. Did I hear correctly on the Sean Hannity Show? Did Hackworth call Cheney a draft dodger?
Take a look at the Swiss system. It's probably not perfect, but it works for them. They've not been in a war for 400 years (and they won that last one!) Sweden has something similar, or did, as does Israel. Israel's includes women, at least the unmarried ones. All these systems are a little different one from another, surely by picking and choosing from among them, we could come up with one that fit our situtation.
And the Constitution does not have that requirement in it.
Remember the Constitution and the reasons for civilian control?
Cowgirl, you're right on the money:
People are called to serve in many different ways. Dick Cheney has proven his love for his country and the troops during his years of public service including work for four different Presidents.
Honorable, patriotic service is "service," whereever and however it is rendered.
I believe most would accept my "right" to opine on this -- I spent a year dodging B-40s driving a PBR in 'Nam (not drafted, volunteer all the way), and I've also served as a full-time LEO, a part-time firefighter, an elected prosecutor, and a judge. I consider all of those "service," and I consider all those who've served honorably in any of those, and many other government and private jobs, as having served me, an American citizen.
Some of the "logic" I've seen on this thread is ludicrous; followed through, it would have us shunning those who spent a career in the military but never saw combat, or insisting that our leaders demonstrate "service" as an enlisted person, rather than as a "privileged" officer. That sounds like other systems, not ours...
When the rockets started flying in VN, and I got on the radio, I was glad someone was trained and ready to send me help -- and I didn't begrudge him his air conditioning or his ba muy ba!
Today, I'd rather have Dick Cheney helping out back in Washington than wearing a couple of stripes and dodging bullets; I feel the same way about the up-and-coming Dick Cheneys who are in training now for their leadership later. As a nation, we've decided many times to exempt, or defer, some people from the draft; most of those decisions were made for the good of the country, not the coddled.
There are really two almost unrelated isssues here: First, military service is neither the test of service to one's country nor necessarily the best training for all kinds of such service. Second, we need the right people in the right jobs; how many Dick Cheneys, George W. Bushes, and Donald Rumsfelds do you know? Do you want them in harm's way for its own sake, or working where we need them (even if that's working their way up "through the ranks" in civilian government service or gaining business experience)?
Serving as a Reserve pilot while training for the presidency of the greatest country on earth is "service," as is training for the vice-presidency, even without Reserve duty, and the value of that service is laid out for all to see today. I'd much rather have the CIC and VP we have right now than a lot of veterans who want the job, and I'm truly grateful for all of their service.
Hackworth needs to lighten up on the elitist bit (and that's all it is); if he keeps it up, I'll start telling everyone he's chicken for never running for local office -- soldiers can shoot back ;-).
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No, and neither do you, but if you read that a young man applies for and receives a slew of draft deferments, says he had priorities other than military service, and later claims he would have been happy to serve, it's impossible to believe.
I don't buy it. This smacks of left-wing smear. Cheney honors the service and would not say this. Even if he did, the sentence probably went something like this: "I had better things to do today than to respond to false accusations from the press."
Wrong. Bubba-1 WAS a draft-dodger. He even admitted to it in a letter he wrote. The fact that he wasn't prosecuted for it only reflects his political connections,even back then. He had Senator William Fullbright as a "rabbi". I have zero doubt that one day it will be proven that Fullbright was a paid agent of the Soviet Union,and that HE was the source for all the intelligence leaks that came out of DC back then that told the communists when we were going to run operations,and even WHERE the operations would be ran. He was the Chairman of the Sentate Intellegenc Committee,and this made and makes him untouchable.
" I believe that all citizens owe service to their nation " . I'll by that bigtime ! I for 1 appreciate the quality of your standards & do whatever it takes to maintain them so they can be passed onto others .
People will serve in ways you or I may not care for MineralMan & this is clear to you . They will also serve in ways that we may never learn of . I'll not call the man a dodger because I do not believe he is 1 .
It is refreshing to see someone just flat out open and stern in his conviction & that gives me hope . I appreciate your honesty .
What would the world do without their brilliance? That is probably what they ask themselves when it comes time to decide to put themselves in harm's way.
I would like a rule that any child of the President, VP, or member of congress that is of military age, must serve.
It would be unconstitutional of course, but it would prove how serious some of these folks are about the usage of force.
I do think that most members of congress don't have kids in the service, the kids their children played with in the upper class suburbs didn't join either. The blood of young men becomes much too abstract for those who don't know anybody whose potential death warrant they are signing.
Amazing. We now have self-described Republicans and conservatives DEFENDING people for avoiding military service. Hyprocisy has no limits amongst Bush-Bots.
Plenty of seasoned soldiers are crappy leaders. McCain was pushing for 25,000 American troops on the ground going into Afghanistan following 9-11 and blasting the administration for choosing another route. You would feel better about your son serving under war hero McCain?
It is my understanding that he was finished with college and married with children when the Vietnam draft got going. If that's the case, and he wasn't already regular military, he probably would not have been called up. I thought most draftees were between the ages of 18-25, and he was past that point by then, wasn't he?
Actively going out of your way to AVOID military service would be draft dodging, not going out of your way to join up when it wasn't necessary ISN'T, IMO.
I had better things to do that work on a auto assembly line when I was younger,but I'd sure like to be the CEO of General Motors now. No job sucks if you start at the top.
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