7 Reasons Why Israel is Entitled to The Land

GAMLA ^ | March 4, 2002 | Senator James M. Inhofe

[Radix]

"Not every "Arab" wants that. That is a racist statement."




Who are these Arabs that don`t?

Are they the ones sending money to Arabian Telethons?

Where is the outcry from the Arabs rebuking the ones that do want to kill the Jews?

Even American Arabs are silent when it comes to speaking out against the atrocities!

[LibertarianInExile]

Israel may be a Jewish state but the biggest problem with those who would defend her is that they inevitably label her opponents anti-Semites. Israel is a multiethnic state. To support or oppose Israel is not to support or oppose the Jewish people, but the people of the modern state of Israel. Israel is a recently established country, not ancient Israel, and certainly not the Vatican City of Judaism whence all Judaic opinion flows, as many of her more ardent supporters would have us believe.

I don't recall (honestly, I don't) what Mr. Shear said that made him seem anti-Semitic to Siggy to begin with. I've certainly seen no substantiating Shear quote in subsequent Siggy posts to back that charge up.

But that Mr. Shear, or anyone, would consider Israel vital to our national security, leaves me stunned. How a postage stamp sized country on the Mediterranean with no national resources short of a regional military can best vital to OUR national security is beyond me!

Now, how the U.S. is vital to ISRAEL'S national security, I can see in spades...but the biggest question for Mr. Shear and his cohorts is, how they imagine the 'backing' of Israel does anything to add to the military defense of the United States? Those 'levels' of national security, those U.S. interests he speaks of, in Israel, are far beyond my comprehension--I look forward to further enlightenment.

[SevenofNine]

Hey Linda rackkkk that history fact

Hey Linda I call that FAIR Real estate business deal if you know what I mean

YEAH even Bzarineire church got scoreboard on any Muslum community but Jews got there first

Remember God told Abraharm see stars in the skies that be number of descendants

RACK THAT

[SJackson]

Rodney King : Well, I think that Israel has a right to the land by virtue of conquest, and that the U.S. has an interest in that by virture of Isreal being a democracy, anti-terrorist, etc.

I will say, however, that I think reasons #1 and #2 are totally bogus.

What Inhofe says is true, I just don't think it matters who left a scroll in a cave 3,000 years ago. Every nation on earth has changed owners since then. Are we to re-draw the boundaries of every nation based upon 3,000 year old borders? …

====================

LibertarianInExile: In fact, most of Inhofe's logic can be used to justify a certain other group's claims:

Why Native Americans Are Entitled To The U.S.

I can't even start to twist Inhofe's 3rd, 5th and 6th comments in favor of Native

Americans,

====================

Rodney hits a key point, which Inhofe barely touches on, the legitimate results of conflicts between nations.

I’d be quite comfortable to trace Israel’s history to the aftermath of WW I, and the Treaty of Paris, the Balfour Declaration playing a big part.

Unfortunately, Turkey, the dominant Arab power of the time picked the wrong side and lost. As a result, she lost a substantial portion of her previous territory, which Britain and France carved up into a Jewish homeland, along with ten or eleven Arab states. Israel was, of course, later cut up again to provide a home (Jordan) for the Hashemites which the peaceful Sauds kicked out of their historical homeland on the Arabian peninsula.

Jews have a right to a homeland, and the right to settle there. If that’s illegitimate, so is every Arab state from Syria to Saudi Arabia.

The Arabs picked the wrong side again, in WWII, leading to the establishment of Israel as an independent political entity, they again picked the losing side a number of times from 1948 to 1973. Losing wars has repercussions, though admittedly they’ve lost little in their wars with Israel.

BTW, to this day no sovereign nation since Turkey has claimed the West Bank or Gaza.

The Indian comparison would only be valid if they had won their wars, they didn’t. The reason you can’t twist 3, 4 and 5 is that, like 6, they address Israel’s value to the US, not her right to exist.

[SJackson]

perhaps you can convince others that the P's living in Israel are all treated equally but remember Israel is a country where polls show a large percentage of the dominant Jewish population wants to evict all of the remaining Arabs

That's nonsense. Here's links to a number of polls (I post about one every 3 weeks). Back it up.

Search: poll and Pales

Search: poll and Israel

While you're at it, find an Arab nation for me where, like Israel, Jews are allowed to practice their religion, vote, serve in government, and in the military (volunteers only, no draft).

[SJackson]

Israeli settlements in U.N Mandated Palestine are "Peaceful" gestures?

There is no mandated Palestine, other than Jordan.

[Johnny Shear]

Who are these Arabs that don`t?

Spencer Abraham for one. I'll let you figure-out the rest.

[Johnny Shear]

You support Israel 100%?

Yes. I don't studder when I type, and your eyes don't wabble when you read...You read what I wrote.

And I'm sure that some of your best friend are Jews as well.

Actually, no. But what does that have to do with anything?

[Johnny Shear]

Admin Moderator...Please delete my response, number 62 on this thread. I addressed it to the wrong person. Thank you.

And nightdriver, I am sorry for the mistake I made by addressing it to you. It was intended for someone else. I made the mistake by replying from my "My Comments" section.

[LostTribe]

 >The land of Israel has been promised to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob - the Jewish people alone...

That is the first of many errors which lead to error filled conlusions. Check this History of the Israelites then tell us how ONLY Jews are Israelites, thus are the ONLY people who are recipients of Gods promises:

3-MINUTE HISTORY OF THE ISRAELITES

Four Thousand years ago, Abraham (a great-great grandson of Shem, a son of Noah) and a small group of Hebrews (of which there were & are many varieties) migrated from southern Iraq to Canaan (~Palestine). Several generations later, around 1853 BC, his Grandson Jacob (who was renamed Israel) and his 12 Sons and families moved to Egypt. As offspring of Shem, they were called "Shemites" or "Semites", as were his many other offspring.

~1453 BC, now as the 12 Tribes of the 12 Sons of Israel, and over 3 Million strong, these Semites bailed out of Egypt in the well-documented overland EXODUS and fled back to ~Palestine.  But the Tribes “couldn't all get along” there, so ~922 BC these 5 Million Israelites split into the Northern and Southern Kingdoms. 

(In actual numbers, 5 Million people is about the same size as Ireland, Norway, Denmark or Israel today, and was 10% of the estimated 50 Million world population at that time. The world population is now ONE HUNDRED TIMES as large. Compared to todays 6 Billion people, the Israelites relative population would have been over twice as large as the United States of America!) 

The very large Northern Kingdom of Israel was made up of 10 of the Tribes. Inheriting the Kingly names which applied to all 12 Tribes before the split, the Northern Kingdom (alone) becomes known as the Kingdom of Israel or House of Israel, (also House of Joseph, House of Ephriam, House of Isaac, and House of Omri), and is led by the northern Tribe of Ephraim. 

Two hundred years later these Northern Israelites were taken into captivity by the Assyrians (~722 BC) and relocated to the northern Fertile Crescent area of Iraq/Iran. They were not diligent in updating their eMail addresses, thus were called, by some, the "Lost Tribes", or "Lost Sheep" or "Lost Children" of the Kingdom or House of Israel. (However at ~1/12 or more of the worlds population it seems unlikely they would actually disappear, or get "lost". The global population now ~75 Million.)

A hundred years later, this "lost" Northern Kingdom of Israel with now over 6 Million Israelites helped the Medes and Persians overthrow the Assyrians, then escaped north through the Caucasus Mountains and around the Black and Caspian Seas, to explode into history ~610 BC as The Celts. These Celts mixed with (and fought against) each other, and with other scattered Israelites (proto-Celts) who had escaped from Egypt by sea nearly a thousand years earlier, before the overland Exodus. Also, with other Israelites who migrated from Palestine after the overland Exodus but before the Assyrian captivity and who had already established numerous outposts in Europe and elsewhere. 

These Millions of Celts grew to become Tens, then Hundreds of Millions as they migrated in waves westward and northwest to Galatia, Ephesus, Corinth, Thessalonika, Phillipi, Collosse, to what is today Hallstatt, Austria and Neuchatel, Switzerland (where exist major Celtic digs and museums) and beyond, to totally dominate Northern and Western Europe. These Celts (also as Cimmerians, Scythians, Danaoi, Massagetae, Milesians, Masilia, Sarmatians, Germani, Goths, Franks, Gauls, Lombards, Belgae, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vandals, Danes, Normans, and other assorted "Barbarians") are the rootstock of today’s Europeans and Americans who became the backbone of global Christianity.

The much smaller Southern Kingdom was made up of the Tribe of Judah & a mix of Levites and Benjamites. It was also known as the Kingdom of Judah or House of Judah. These Southern Israelites (aka Judeans) were taken captive in ~587 BC and removed to Babylon. Only ~50,000 Judeans returned to Palestine ~70 years later. They and their offspring are called Jews.

[LostTribe]

>Remember G-d told Abraharm see stars in the skies that be number of descendants

That's a wonderful part of the Bible.  However the tiny number of Jews on earth (~12 Million) don't come even close to fulfilling this promise.  It was to the OTHER Israelites (~ 1 BILLION) that the promise of a GREAT NATION was made, and has been fulfilled.

Genesis 12 was addressed to Abram (later Abraham), but Abraham was neither an Israelite nor a Jew:

Genesis 12:2-3 "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing.  I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

There were no Jews at the time of Abraham, There were not even any Israelites.  There would not be any Jews for another ~1,500 years.  

The "Great Nation" provision is important because since it was promised by God it will (or has) come true.  As we examine the Israelites history it is clear those Israelites called Jews were never a great nation and are not one today.  They don't come even close to ranking among the worlds great powers.

However, the other Israelites, the Northern Kingdom/LostTribes/Celts/Europeans/Americans are The Greatest POWER (Nation) in the history of the world.  No nation in the history of the world has been a greater blessing to all the people of the earth than these Northern Kingdom Israelites!

And the other promises to Abram do enure to certain of his offspring as told in: Genesis 17:19-21

19. And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20. And as for Ish'ma-el, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Isaacs seed includes Jacob (renamed Israel), and those who follow in that chain are called Israelites.  All these Israelites received the promises of Abraham.  But Israelites are not just those few who much later became known as Jews.

[Johnny Shear]

I don't care what the Koran or the Bible say. I think they are both novels. Individual Christians, Jews and Muslims interprep their own holy books differently, and some of all faiths also distort the other holy books' meanings. Thus, all (or most of) the problems we're speaking of in this thread.

Amazing! You tell me not to bash you in the same sentence that you call me a breathless harpie.

And yes, I called you a breathless harpie and told you to stop bashing me. That is because you flamed me like a harpie in trying to call me things that I am not, and attribute opinions to me that I don't hold. But you knew that.

[SJackson]

The US has actually restrained Israel...

It does make you think what the history of the mideast would be like if we just made Israel give the Sinai back once, not twice, and let IDF capture Bagdhad, Amman, Damascus, Cairo and perhaps Riyadh. Beirut too.

Would have put a dent in the rise of the Wahhabis.

[LostTribe]

>Israelis have had a presence there for 3,000 years. They have been there for a long time. The coins, the cities, the pottery, the culture--there are other people, groups that are there, but there is no mistaking the fact that Israelis have been present in that land for 3,000 years.

I suspect you mean "Israelites" instead of "Israelies". The Israelites were certainly there in 1,000 BC, all 12(13) Tribes of them. They were ruled over in a common Kingdom by David.

Of course David was not a Jew. Like all the rest of them he was an Israelite. David was of the tribe of Judah, one of only 3 tribes which would later form the Southern Kingdom. Based on membership in that kingdom, it's members would become known as Jews many hundreds of years later, after only about 10% of them them returned from Babylonian exile.

Meanwhile, the other 10 tribes formed the Northern Kingdom and were never known as Jews. They went on to become known as The Celts, and have every claim their Jewish cousins have to all the promises. Today, as Europeans and Americans they provide the bulk of the funding which keeps their Jewish cousins resident on their joint property in that new nation which was named "Israel".

[SJackson]

I suspect you mean "Israelites" instead of "Israelies".

Not me, the Senator.

[LostTribe]

>Not me, the Senator.

Yep, I know from experience it's the guy who posts the original article who catches the flak as though he wrote it. Come with the territory. {ggg}.

[Southack]

Those are great reasons for Israel to have their land. Here are my own:

1. Might makes right. To the victor goes the spoils, and as Saudi Arabia's ruling Saud family says "If you want to change us, then do so by the sword".

2. Good stewards. While in possession of their land, Israel has turned deserts into pastures, rocks into factories, and sand into tourist resort beaches. Moreover, the legal rights of ALL religions are respected and explicitly protected under Israeli law and rule.

3. The UN/U.S/and the previous owner (England) say so. Great Britain's Palestinian territory was formally divided into Palestine/Jordan and Israel by treaty, and formally recognized by the UN and all great powers.

4. Losers have no claim. Jerusalem's Grand Mufti went to Hitler to curry favor with the NAZI's. He expressed explicit support for Germany's anti-Jewish policies. Well, the Grand Mufti and Hitler got their heads handed to them in their ill-advised war on the civilized world. Too bad, so sad.

5. The claims against Israel are bogus. The Palestinians were kicked out of Palestine in September of 1969 by the Islamic King of Jordan after they tried to take over Hussein's entire country. Now they claim that their NEW homeland is the real Palestine (i.e. Israel). That dog won't hunt.

6. The behavior by the claimants is reprehensible. Palestinians engage in deliberate "peace-time" attacks on civilians. Exclusively murdering innocent civilians with no military value is hardly a a tactic that can be rewarded by suddenly caving in to their demands.

7. The Palestinians have a history of reneging on every deal that they enter. Even if their demands were met, they would soon be making other demands under the threat of renewed terrorism.