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7 Reasons Why Israel is Entitled to The Land
GAMLA ^ | March 4, 2002 | Senator James M. Inhofe

Posted on 12/01/2002 6:37:28 AM PST by SJackson

A speech by Senator James M. Inhofe, Republican Senator from Oklahoma, March 4, 2002

I will discuss seven reasons, which I mentioned once before, why Israel is entitled to the land they have and that it should not be a part of the peace process.

If this is something that Israel wants to do, it is their business to do it. But anyone who has tried to put the pressure on Israel to do this is wrong.

We are going to be hit by skeptics who are going to say we will be attacked because of our support for Israel, and if we get out of the Middle East-that is us-all the problems will go away. That is just not true. If we withdraw, all of these problems will again come to our door.

I have some observations to make about that. But I would like to reemphasize once again the seven reasons that Israel has the right to their land. The first reason is that Israel has the right to the land because of all of the archeological evidence. That is reason,

Number One: All the archeological evidence supports it.

Every time there is a dig in Israel, it does nothing but support the fact that Israelis have had a presence there for 3,000 years. They have been there for a long time. The coins, the cities, the pottery, the culture--there are other people, groups that are there, but there is no mistaking the fact that Israelis have been present in that land for 3,000 years.

It predates any claims that other peoples in the regions may have. The ancient Philistines are extinct. Many other ancient peoples are extinct. They do not have the unbroken line to this date that the Israelis have.

Even the Egyptians of today are not racial Egyptians of 2,000, 3,000 years ago. They are primarily an Arab people. The land is called Egypt, but they are not the same racial and ethnic stock as the old Egyptians of the ancient world. The first Israelis are in fact descended from the original Israelites. The first proof, then, is the archeology.

The second proof of Israel's right to the land is the historic right. History supports it totally and completely. We know there has been an Israel up until the time of the Roman Empire. The Romans conquered the land. Israel had no homeland, although Jews were allowed to live there. They were driven from the land in two dispersions: One was in 70 A.D. and the other was in 135 A.D. But there was always a Jewish presence in the land.

The Turks, who took over about 700 years ago and ruled the land up until about World War 1, had control. Then the land was conquered by the British. The Turks entered World War 1 on the side of Germany. The British knew they had to do something to punish Turkey, and also to break up that empire that was going to be a part of the whole effort of Germany in World War I. So the British sent troops against the Turks in the Holy Land.

One of the generals who was leading the British armies was a man named Allenby. Allenby was a Bible-believing Christian. He carried a Bible with him everywhere he went and he knew the significance of Jerusalem.

The night before the attack against Jerusalem to drive out the Turks, Allenby prayed that God would allow him to capture the city without doing damage to the holy places.

That day, Allenby sent World War 1 biplanes over the city of Jerusalem to do a reconnaissance mission. You have to understand that the Turks had at that time never seen an airplane. So there they were, flying around. They looked in the sky and saw these fascinating inventions and did not know what they were, and they were terrified by them. Then they were told they were going to be opposed by a man named Allenby the next day, which means, in their language, ``man sent from God'' or ``prophet from God.'' They dared not fight against a prophet from God, so the next morning, when Allenby went to take Jerusalem, he went in and captured it without firing a single shot.

The British Government was grateful to Jewish people around the world, particularly to one Jewish chemist who helped them manufacture niter. Niter is an ingredient that was used in nitroglycerin which was sent over from the New World. But they did not have a way of getting it to England. The German U-boats were shooting on the boats, so most of the niter they were trying to import to make nitroglycerin was at the bottom of the ocean. But a man named Weizmann, a Jewish chemist, discovered a way to make it from materials that existed in England. As a result, they were able to continue that supply.

The British at that time said they were going to give the Jewish people a homeland. That is all a part of history. It is all written down in history. They were gratified that the Jewish people, the bankers, came through and helped finance the war.

The homeland that Britain said it would set aside consisted of all of what is now Israel and all of what was then the nation of Jordan--the whole thing. That was what Britain promised to give the Jews in 1917.

In the beginning, there was some Arab support for this action. There was not a huge Arab population in the land at that time, and there is a reason for that. The land was not able to sustain a large population of people. It just did not have the development it needed to handle those people, and the land was not really wanted by anybody. Nobody really wanted this land. It was considered to be worthless land. I want the Presiding Officer to hear what Mark Twain said. And, of course, you may have read "Huckleberry Finn" and "Tom Sawyer". Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) took a tour of Palestine in 1867. This is how he described that land. We are talking about Israel now. He said: "A desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds. A silent, mournful expanse. We never saw a human being on the whole route. There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country."

Where was this great Palestinian nation? It did not exist. It was not there. Palestinians were not there. Palestine was a region named by the Romans, but at that time it was under the control of Turkey, and there was no large mass of people there because the land would not support them.

This is the report that the Palestinian Royal Commission, created by the British, made. It quotes an account of the conditions on the coastal plain along the Mediterranean Sea in 1913. This is the Palestinian Royal Commission. They said: "The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track, suitable for transport by camels or carts. No orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached the Yavnev village. Houses were mud. Schools did not exist. The western part toward the sea was almost a desert. The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many villages were deserted by their inhabitants."

That was 1913.

The French author Voltaire described Palestine as "a hopeless, dreary place." In short, under the Turks the land suffered from neglect and low population. That is a historic fact. The nation became populated by both Jews and Arabs because the land came to prosper when Jews came back and began to reclaim it. Historically, they began to reclaim it. If there had never been any archaeological evidence to support the rights of the Israelis to the territory, it is also important to recognize that other nations in the area have no longstanding claim to the country either.

Did you know that Saudi Arabia was not created until 1913, Lebanon until 1920? Iraq did not exist as a nation until 1932, Syria until 1941; the borders of Jordan were established in 1946 and Kuwait in 1961. Any of these nations that would say Israel is only a recent arrival would have to deny their own rights as recent arrivals as well. They did not exist as countries. They were all under the control of the Turks.

Historically, Israel gained its independence in 1948.

The third reason that land belongs to Israel is the practical value of the Israelis being there. Israel today is a modern marvel of agriculture. Israel is able to bring more food out of a desert environment than any other country in the world. The Arab nations ought to make Israel their friend and import technology from Israel that would allow all the Middle East, not just Israel, to become an exporter of food. Israel has unarguable success in its agriculture.

The fourth reason I believe Israel has the right to the land is on the grounds of humanitarian concern. You see. There were six million Jews slaughtered in Europe in World War 2. The persecution against the Jews had been very strong in Russia since the advent of communism. It was against them even before then under the Czars.

These people have a right to their homeland. If we are not going to allow them a homeland in the Middle East, then where? What other nation on Earth is going to cede territory, is going to give up land?

They are not asking for a great deal. The whole nation of Israel would fit into my home State of Oklahoma seven times. It would fit into the Presiding Officer's State of Georgia seven times. They are not asking for a great deal. The whole nation of Israel is very small. It is a nation that, up until the time that claims started coming in, was not desired by anybody.

The fifth reason Israel ought to have their land is that she is a strategic ally of the United States. Whether we realize it or not, Israel is a deterrent, an impediment, to certain groups hostile to democracies and hostile to what we believe in, hostile to that which makes us the greatest nation in the history of the world. They have kept them from taking complete control of the Middle East. If it were not for Israel, they would overrun the region. Israel is our strategic ally.

It is good to know we have a friend in the Middle East on whom we can count. They vote with us in the United Nations more than England, more than Canada, more than France, more than Germany--more than any other country in the world.

The sixth reason is that Israel is a roadblock to terrorism. The war we are now facing is not against a sovereign nation; it is against a group of terrorists who are very fluid, moving from one country to another. They are almost invisible. That is whom we are fighting against today.

We need every ally we can get. If we do not stop terrorism in the Middle East, it will be on our shores. We have said this again and again and again, and it is true.

One of the reasons I believe the spiritual door was opened for an attack against the United States of America is that the policy of our Government has been to ask the Israelis, and demand with pressure, that she not retaliate in a significant way against the terrorist strikes that have been launched against them.

Since its independence in 1948, Israel has fought four wars: The war in 1948 and 1949 -- that was the War for Independence -- the war in 1956, the Sinai campaign; the Six-Day War in 1967; and in 1973, when Egypt and Syria [attacked] on Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the year.

You have to understand that in all four cases, Israel was attacked. They were not the aggressors. Some people may argue that this was not true because they went in first in 1956, but they knew at that time that Egypt was building a huge military to become the aggressor. Israel, in fact, was not the aggressor and has not been the aggressor in any of the four wars.

Also, they won all four wars against impossible odds. They are great warriors. They consider a level playing field being outnumbered two to one. There were 39 Scud missiles that landed on Israeli soil during the Gulf War [1991]. Our President asked Israel not to respond. In order to have the Arab nations on board, we asked Israel not to participate in the war. They showed tremendous restraint and did not. Now we have asked them to stand back and not do anything over these last several attacks.

We have criticized them. We have criticized them in our media. Local people on television and radio often criticize Israel, not knowing the true facts. We need to be informed.

I was so thrilled when I heard a reporter pose a question to our Secretary of State, Colin Powell. He said: "Mr. Powell, the United States has advocated a policy of restraint in the Middle East. We have discouraged Israel from retaliation again and again and again because we've said it leads to continued escalation--that it escalates the violence. Are we going to follow that preaching ourselves?" Mr. Powell indicated we would strike back. In other words, we can tell Israel not to do it, but when it hits us, we are going to do something.

But all that changed in December when the Israelis went into the Gaza with gun ships and into the West Bank with F-16s. With the exception of last May, the Israelis had not used F-16s since the 1967 6-Day War. And I am so proud of them because we have to stop terrorism. It is not going to go away. If Israel were driven into the sea tomorrow, if every Jew in the Middle East were killed, terrorism would not end. You know that in your heart. Terrorism would continue.

It is not just a matter of Israel in the Middle East. It is the heart of the very people who are perpetrating this stuff. Should they be successful in overrunning Israel--which they won't be--but should they be, it would not be enough. They will never be satisfied.

Number Seven, I believe very strongly that we ought to support Israel; that she has a right to the land. This is the most important reason: Because God said so. As I said a minute ago, look it up in the book of Genesis. It is right up there on the desk.

In Genesis 13:14-17, the Bible says: "The Lord said to Abram, "Lift up now your eyes, and look from the place where you are northward, and southward, and eastward and westward: for all the land which you see, to you will I give it, and to your seed forever . . . Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it to thee." That is God talking.

The Bible says that Abram removed his tent and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and built there an altar before the Lord. Hebron is in the West Bank. It is at this place where God appeared to Abram and said, "I am giving you this land'' - [including] the West Bank. This is not a political battle at all. It is a contest over whether or not the word of God is true. The seven reasons, I am convinced, clearly establish that Israel has a right to the land.

Eight years ago on the lawn of the White House, Yitzhak Rabin shook hands with PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat. It was a historic occasion. It was a tragic occasion.

At that time, the official policy of the Government of Israel began to be, "Let us appease the terrorists. Let us begin to trade the land for peace." This process continued unabated up until last year. Here in our own Nation, at Camp David, in the summer of 2000, then Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Barak offered the most generous concessions to Yasser Arafat that had ever been laid on the table.

He offered him more than 90 percent of all the West Bank territory, sovereign control of it. There were some parts he did not want to offer, but in exchange for that he said he would give up land in Israel proper that the PLO had not even asked for.

And he also did the unthinkable. He even spoke of dividing Jerusalem and allowing the Palestinians to have their capital there in the East. Yasser Arafat stormed out of the meeting. Why did he storm out of the meeting? Everything he had said he wanted was offered there. It was put into his hands. Why did he storm out of the meeting?

A couple of months later, there began to be riots, terrorism. The riots began when now Prime Minister Ariel Sharon went to the Temple Mount. And this was used as the thing that lit the fire and that caused the explosion.

Did you know that Sharon did not go unannounced and that he contacted the Islamic authorities before he went and secured their permission and had permission to be there? It was no surprise.

The response was very carefully calculated. They knew the world would not pay attention to the details. They would portray this in the Arab world as an attack upon the holy mosque. They would portray it as an attack upon that Mosque and use it as an excuse to riot. Over the last 8 years, during this time of the peace process, where the Israeli public has pressured its leaders to give up land for peace because they are tired of fighting, there has been increased terror.

In fact, it has been greater in the last 8 years than any other time in Israel's history. Showing restraint and giving in has not produced any kind of peace. It is so much so that today the Leftist peace movement in Israel does not exist because the people feel they were deceived.

They did offer a hand of peace, and it was not taken. That is why the politics of Israel have changed drastically over the past 12 months. The Israelis have come to see that, "No matter what we do, these people do not want to deal with us. ..... They want to destroy us."

That is why even yet today the stationery of the PLO still has upon it the map of the entire state of Israel, not just the tiny little part they call the West Bank that they want. They want it all.

We have to get out of this mind set that somehow you can buy peace in the Middle East by giving little plots of land. It has not worked before when it has been offered.

These seven reasons show why Israel is entitled to that Land.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Israel; Syria
KEYWORDS: eretzyisrael; israel; palestine; syria
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To: Johnny Shear
"Not every "Arab" wants that. That is a racist statement."




Who are these Arabs that don`t?

Are they the ones sending money to Arabian Telethons?

Where is the outcry from the Arabs rebuking the ones that do want to kill the Jews?

Even American Arabs are silent when it comes to speaking out against the atrocities!
81 posted on 12/01/2002 10:14:39 AM PST by Radix
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Comment #82 Removed by Moderator

To: Rodney King
Israel may be a Jewish state but the biggest problem with those who would defend her is that they inevitably label her opponents anti-Semites. Israel is a multiethnic state. To support or oppose Israel is not to support or oppose the Jewish people, but the people of the modern state of Israel. Israel is a recently established country, not ancient Israel, and certainly not the Vatican City of Judaism whence all Judaic opinion flows, as many of her more ardent supporters would have us believe.

I don't recall (honestly, I don't) what Mr. Shear said that made him seem anti-Semitic to Siggy to begin with. I've certainly seen no substantiating Shear quote in subsequent Siggy posts to back that charge up.

But that Mr. Shear, or anyone, would consider Israel vital to our national security, leaves me stunned. How a postage stamp sized country on the Mediterranean with no national resources short of a regional military can best vital to OUR national security is beyond me!

Now, how the U.S. is vital to ISRAEL'S national security, I can see in spades...but the biggest question for Mr. Shear and his cohorts is, how they imagine the 'backing' of Israel does anything to add to the military defense of the United States? Those 'levels' of national security, those U.S. interests he speaks of, in Israel, are far beyond my comprehension--I look forward to further enlightenment.
83 posted on 12/01/2002 10:20:56 AM PST by LibertarianInExile
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To: LindaSOG
Hey Linda rackkkk that history fact

Hey Linda I call that FAIR Real estate business deal if you know what I mean

YEAH even Bzarineire church got scoreboard on any Muslum community but Jews got there first

Remember God told Abraharm see stars in the skies that be number of descendants

RACK THAT
84 posted on 12/01/2002 10:26:08 AM PST by SevenofNine
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Comment #85 Removed by Moderator

To: Rodney King; LibertarianInExile
Rodney King : Well, I think that Israel has a right to the land by virtue of conquest, and that the U.S. has an interest in that by virture of Isreal being a democracy, anti-terrorist, etc.

I will say, however, that I think reasons #1 and #2 are totally bogus.

What Inhofe says is true, I just don't think it matters who left a scroll in a cave 3,000 years ago. Every nation on earth has changed owners since then. Are we to re-draw the boundaries of every nation based upon 3,000 year old borders? …

====================

LibertarianInExile: In fact, most of Inhofe's logic can be used to justify a certain other group's claims:

Why Native Americans Are Entitled To The U.S.

I can't even start to twist Inhofe's 3rd, 5th and 6th comments in favor of Native

Americans,

====================

Rodney hits a key point, which Inhofe barely touches on, the legitimate results of conflicts between nations.

I’d be quite comfortable to trace Israel’s history to the aftermath of WW I, and the Treaty of Paris, the Balfour Declaration playing a big part.

Unfortunately, Turkey, the dominant Arab power of the time picked the wrong side and lost. As a result, she lost a substantial portion of her previous territory, which Britain and France carved up into a Jewish homeland, along with ten or eleven Arab states. Israel was, of course, later cut up again to provide a home (Jordan) for the Hashemites which the peaceful Sauds kicked out of their historical homeland on the Arabian peninsula.

Jews have a right to a homeland, and the right to settle there. If that’s illegitimate, so is every Arab state from Syria to Saudi Arabia.

The Arabs picked the wrong side again, in WWII, leading to the establishment of Israel as an independent political entity, they again picked the losing side a number of times from 1948 to 1973. Losing wars has repercussions, though admittedly they’ve lost little in their wars with Israel.

BTW, to this day no sovereign nation since Turkey has claimed the West Bank or Gaza.

The Indian comparison would only be valid if they had won their wars, they didn’t. The reason you can’t twist 3, 4 and 5 is that, like 6, they address Israel’s value to the US, not her right to exist.

86 posted on 12/01/2002 10:42:12 AM PST by SJackson
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Comment #87 Removed by Moderator

To: wewereright
perhaps you can convince others that the P's living in Israel are all treated equally but remember Israel is a country where polls show a large percentage of the dominant Jewish population wants to evict all of the remaining Arabs

That's nonsense. Here's links to a number of polls (I post about one every 3 weeks). Back it up.

Search: poll and Pales

Search: poll and Israel

While you're at it, find an Arab nation for me where, like Israel, Jews are allowed to practice their religion, vote, serve in government, and in the military (volunteers only, no draft).

88 posted on 12/01/2002 10:45:09 AM PST by SJackson
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To: Johnny Shear
Israeli settlements in U.N Mandated Palestine are "Peaceful" gestures?

There is no mandated Palestine, other than Jordan.

89 posted on 12/01/2002 10:46:27 AM PST by SJackson
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To: Radix
Who are these Arabs that don`t?

Spencer Abraham for one. I'll let you figure-out the rest.

90 posted on 12/01/2002 10:56:36 AM PST by Johnny Shear
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To: Siggy
You support Israel 100%?

Yes. I don't studder when I type, and your eyes don't wabble when you read...You read what I wrote.

And I'm sure that some of your best friend are Jews as well.

Actually, no. But what does that have to do with anything?

91 posted on 12/01/2002 11:01:07 AM PST by Johnny Shear
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To: Johnny Shear; Admin Moderator; nightdriver
Admin Moderator...Please delete my response, number 62 on this thread. I addressed it to the wrong person. Thank you.

And nightdriver, I am sorry for the mistake I made by addressing it to you. It was intended for someone else. I made the mistake by replying from my "My Comments" section.
92 posted on 12/01/2002 11:06:22 AM PST by Johnny Shear
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To: LindaSOG
 >The land of Israel has been promised to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob - the Jewish people alone...

That is the first of many errors which lead to error filled conlusions. Check this History of the Israelites then tell us how ONLY Jews are Israelites, thus are the ONLY people who are recipients of Gods promises:
 

3-MINUTE HISTORY OF THE ISRAELITES

Four Thousand years ago, Abraham (a great-great grandson of Shem, a son of Noah) and a small group of Hebrews (of which there were & are many varieties) migrated from southern Iraq to Canaan (~Palestine). Several generations later, around 1853 BC, his Grandson Jacob (who was renamed Israel) and his 12 Sons and families moved to Egypt. As offspring of Shem, they were called "Shemites" or "Semites", as were his many other offspring.

~1453 BC, now as the 12 Tribes of the 12 Sons of Israel, and over 3 Million strong, these Semites bailed out of Egypt in the well-documented overland EXODUS and fled back to ~Palestine.  But the Tribes “couldn't all get along” there, so ~922 BC these 5 Million Israelites split into the Northern and Southern Kingdoms

(In actual numbers, 5 Million people is about the same size as Ireland, Norway, Denmark or Israel today, and was 10% of the estimated 50 Million world population at that time. The world population is now ONE HUNDRED TIMES as large. Compared to todays 6 Billion people, the Israelites relative population would have been over twice as large as the United States of America!

The very large Northern Kingdom of Israel was made up of 10 of the Tribes. Inheriting the Kingly names which applied to all 12 Tribes before the split, the Northern Kingdom (alone) becomes known as the Kingdom of Israel or House of Israel, (also House of Joseph, House of Ephriam, House of Isaac, and House of Omri), and is led by the northern Tribe of Ephraim

Two hundred years later these Northern Israelites were taken into captivity by the Assyrians (~722 BC) and relocated to the northern Fertile Crescent area of Iraq/Iran. They were not diligent in updating their eMail addresses, thus were called, by some, the "Lost Tribes", or "Lost Sheep" or "Lost Children" of the Kingdom or House of Israel. (However at ~1/12 or more of the worlds population it seems unlikely they would actually disappear, or get "lost". The global population now ~75 Million.)

A hundred years later, this "lost" Northern Kingdom of Israel with now over 6 Million Israelites helped the Medes and Persians overthrow the Assyrians, then escaped north through the Caucasus Mountains and around the Black and Caspian Seas, to explode into history ~610 BC as The Celts. These Celts mixed with (and fought against) each other, and with other scattered Israelites (proto-Celts) who had escaped from Egypt by sea nearly a thousand years earlier, before the overland Exodus. Also, with other Israelites who migrated from Palestine after the overland Exodus but before the Assyrian captivity and who had already established numerous outposts in Europe and elsewhere. 

These Millions of Celts grew to become Tens, then Hundreds of Millions as they migrated in waves westward and northwest to Galatia, Ephesus, Corinth, Thessalonika, Phillipi, Collosse, to what is today Hallstatt, Austria and Neuchatel, Switzerland (where exist major Celtic digs and museums) and beyond, to totally dominate Northern and Western Europe. These Celts (also as Cimmerians, Scythians, Danaoi, Massagetae, Milesians, Masilia, Sarmatians, Germani, Goths, Franks, Gauls, Lombards, Belgae, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vandals, Danes, Normans, and other assorted "Barbarians") are the rootstock of today’s Europeans and Americans who became the backbone of global Christianity.

The much smaller Southern Kingdom was made up of the Tribe of Judah & a mix of Levites and Benjamites. It was also known as the Kingdom of Judah or House of Judah. These Southern Israelites (aka Judeans) were taken captive in ~587 BC and removed to Babylon. Only ~50,000 Judeans returned to Palestine ~70 years later. They and their offspring are called Jews.


93 posted on 12/01/2002 11:11:48 AM PST by LostTribe
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To: LindaSOG
>Remember G-d told Abraharm see stars in the skies that be number of descendants

That's a wonderful part of the Bible.  However the tiny number of Jews on earth (~12 Million) don't come even close to fulfilling this promise.  It was to the OTHER Israelites (~ 1 BILLION) that the promise of a GREAT NATION was made, and has been fulfilled.

Genesis 12 was addressed to Abram (later Abraham), but Abraham was neither an Israelite nor a Jew:

Genesis 12:2-3 "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing.  I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

There were no Jews at the time of Abraham, There were not even any Israelites.  There would not be any Jews for another ~1,500 years.  

The "Great Nation" provision is important because since it was promised by God it will (or has) come true.  As we examine the Israelites history it is clear those Israelites called Jews were never a great nation and are not one today.  They don't come even close to ranking among the worlds great powers.

However, the other Israelites, the Northern Kingdom/LostTribes/Celts/Europeans/Americans are The Greatest POWER (Nation) in the history of the world.  No nation in the history of the world has been a greater blessing to all the people of the earth than these Northern Kingdom Israelites!

And the other promises to Abram do enure to certain of his offspring as told in: Genesis 17:19-21

19. And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20. And as for Ish'ma-el, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Isaacs seed includes Jacob (renamed Israel), and those who follow in that chain are called Israelites.  All these Israelites received the promises of Abraham.  But Israelites are not just those few who much later became known as Jews.

94 posted on 12/01/2002 11:17:05 AM PST by LostTribe
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To: LindaSOG
I don't care what the Koran or the Bible say. I think they are both novels. Individual Christians, Jews and Muslims interprep their own holy books differently, and some of all faiths also distort the other holy books' meanings. Thus, all (or most of) the problems we're speaking of in this thread.

Amazing! You tell me not to bash you in the same sentence that you call me a breathless harpie.

And yes, I called you a breathless harpie and told you to stop bashing me. That is because you flamed me like a harpie in trying to call me things that I am not, and attribute opinions to me that I don't hold. But you knew that.

95 posted on 12/01/2002 11:25:24 AM PST by Johnny Shear
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To: Radix
The US has actually restrained Israel...

It does make you think what the history of the mideast would be like if we just made Israel give the Sinai back once, not twice, and let IDF capture Bagdhad, Amman, Damascus, Cairo and perhaps Riyadh. Beirut too.

Would have put a dent in the rise of the Wahhabis.

96 posted on 12/01/2002 11:26:41 AM PST by SJackson
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To: SJackson
>Israelis have had a presence there for 3,000 years. They have been there for a long time. The coins, the cities, the pottery, the culture--there are other people, groups that are there, but there is no mistaking the fact that Israelis have been present in that land for 3,000 years.

I suspect you mean "Israelites" instead of "Israelies". The Israelites were certainly there in 1,000 BC, all 12(13) Tribes of them. They were ruled over in a common Kingdom by David.

Of course David was not a Jew. Like all the rest of them he was an Israelite. David was of the tribe of Judah, one of only 3 tribes which would later form the Southern Kingdom. Based on membership in that kingdom, it's members would become known as Jews many hundreds of years later, after only about 10% of them them returned from Babylonian exile.

Meanwhile, the other 10 tribes formed the Northern Kingdom and were never known as Jews. They went on to become known as The Celts, and have every claim their Jewish cousins have to all the promises. Today, as Europeans and Americans they provide the bulk of the funding which keeps their Jewish cousins resident on their joint property in that new nation which was named "Israel".

97 posted on 12/01/2002 11:33:25 AM PST by LostTribe
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To: LostTribe
I suspect you mean "Israelites" instead of "Israelies".

Not me, the Senator.

98 posted on 12/01/2002 11:36:43 AM PST by SJackson
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To: SJackson
>Not me, the Senator.

Yep, I know from experience it's the guy who posts the original article who catches the flak as though he wrote it. Come with the territory. {ggg}.

99 posted on 12/01/2002 11:41:10 AM PST by LostTribe
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To: SJackson; Lazamataz; RJayneJ
Those are great reasons for Israel to have their land. Here are my own:

1. Might makes right. To the victor goes the spoils, and as Saudi Arabia's ruling Saud family says "If you want to change us, then do so by the sword".

2. Good stewards. While in possession of their land, Israel has turned deserts into pastures, rocks into factories, and sand into tourist resort beaches. Moreover, the legal rights of ALL religions are respected and explicitly protected under Israeli law and rule.

3. The UN/U.S/and the previous owner (England) say so. Great Britain's Palestinian territory was formally divided into Palestine/Jordan and Israel by treaty, and formally recognized by the UN and all great powers.

4. Losers have no claim. Jerusalem's Grand Mufti went to Hitler to curry favor with the NAZI's. He expressed explicit support for Germany's anti-Jewish policies. Well, the Grand Mufti and Hitler got their heads handed to them in their ill-advised war on the civilized world. Too bad, so sad.

5. The claims against Israel are bogus. The Palestinians were kicked out of Palestine in September of 1969 by the Islamic King of Jordan after they tried to take over Hussein's entire country. Now they claim that their NEW homeland is the real Palestine (i.e. Israel). That dog won't hunt.

6. The behavior by the claimants is reprehensible. Palestinians engage in deliberate "peace-time" attacks on civilians. Exclusively murdering innocent civilians with no military value is hardly a a tactic that can be rewarded by suddenly caving in to their demands.

7. The Palestinians have a history of reneging on every deal that they enter. Even if their demands were met, they would soon be making other demands under the threat of renewed terrorism.

100 posted on 12/01/2002 11:42:16 AM PST by Southack
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