Posted on 11/26/2002 5:59:57 AM PST by wingnuts'nbolts
Don't believe the mainstream press's account of the latest court decision on intelligence sharing.
Maybe it's post-election payback. Or maybe just rank ignorance. Whatever the cause, the press's flagrant distortion of a recent court decision on the intelligence sharing represents an escalation of the elite's war on the war on terror.
(Excerpt) Read more at city-journal.org ...
It is easy to think that you have first-hand knowledge if you are fed a steady diet of "reliable" opinion for several months.
I have never read any of the Koran except for what has been excerpted here. In my lifetime I have known several Moslems, but never have discussed their faith with them. I would not presume to comment on something I know nothing about and indict ONE BILLION people.
The border situation needs attention, but since we have had NO budget (thanks to the Rat Senate) and NO Homeland Security Bill until yesterday (thanks again to the Rat Senate) and since we need the military and the National Gueard in many, many areas and especially because we have LIMITED manpower, I think you need to have a bit of patience.
I want illegal immigration stopped, but not so quickly that it alienates Mexico and causes them to look elsewhere for friendship.
Morevoer, don't we have a recent track record by both JOhn Poindexter and Tom Ridge of them getting on TV and lying to our faces? How can either of these clowns be trusted?
But it makes us safe, don'tcha know.
NOT!
I was talking about how a few individuals in the media and talk radio completely distorted what was in the Homeland Security Act. What on earth does that have to do with Ruby Ridge? I've actually been reading the HSA. Have you? Do you have any idea what is in the bill, or are you depending upon the media? BTW, I told the Cato institute that they had made this error on their home page, and they corrected it. So I think I'm on target here.
Hint: Strawmen are not very limber, yours is falling apart.
Agreed, and I'm thinking of trying to create an informal group of freepers to do just that - split up the task of reading bills, with at least two freepers of different political views reading a given bill, and providing their analysis back to the rest of the forum. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be far better than the current situation.
I haven't read this particular law yet, but I did read the so called "Patriot" act. And it is an abomination to liberty.
I agree with you about the Patriot Act. Howver, the HSA at this point seems to have provided a net increase to privacy. It banished a National ID Card, it killed off TIPS, and it created a Privacy Officer within the new department to ensure adherence to privacy rules. Despite the claims of Safire and others, HSA does NOT have anything to do with TIA, and IMO TIA is gonna get either severely restricted or eliminated. My main issue with HSA is that, IMO, it gives the Secretary of that department a lot of discretionary powers that are not well-defined. But at least 80 percent of the bill is a bunch of completely brain-numbing administrative minutia.
No, it is not. You're thinking of TIPS, which was prohibited by the HSA.
John Poindexter and Tom Ridge are confirmed liars, straight to our faces.
Previous government atrocities have gone uncorrected and unpunished.
Alternatives to intrusive domestic spying, like adhereing to existing proper visa policy and a thousand other things, have gone unimplemented.
Why then, even if you are correct about the protections written into the HSA and the TIA proposal, should anyone trust that these protections will be observed or enforced?
When and how did you lose your freedom of speech and assembly ? Were you convicted of something ? You certainly haven't lost it from legislation.
The "facts" are buried in a two-inch-thick document written in a language resembling Old High Martian. Worse, it has become a matter of common knowledge that such obfuscation is a standard tactic used to enact outragously self-serving, abusive, or otherwise unacceptable agendas that would get the sponsoring politician tarred and feathered if advanced in the light of day.
Frankly, the feds have only themselves to blame if people assume the worst. They've come to this well too often, and now somebody's gone and peed in it.
That is my point. We are at war with the fanatics. In the process, we must not drive the moderates into their arms.
Look, there are two issues here. First, my claim in post #23 was that certain folks, in the media, talk radio and in think tanks, took a straight-out lie by Safire and spread it without checking it. From that, you have now brought in Ruby Ridge and other government travesties. The two are not related, but I will address your point as well.
Could Ridge abuse his powers? Yes, and one of my primary concerns about the HSA is there are certain powers bestowed in that bill upon the new Secretary that are not well-defined, and we'll have to watch how this law is translated into regulations via the Federal Register. As far as protection, the best and only real protection is eternal vigilence over what the government is doing. It killed TIPS, it will probably either curtain or kill TIA, and it killed the National ID card. You might not see those as positives. I do.
As I pointed out in my previous message, this is more or less equivalent to suggesting that if I don't have access to heavy machinery then the real solution is to work out until I'm strong enough to bend steel in my bare hands.
The Elian Raiders still work for the INS.
Lon Horiuchi still draws a government salary.
The FBI agent that shot that kid's face off still has his job.
Tell us again, apologists, why we should believe the fine words in the PA, HSA, and TIA?
Really? Why is it so hard for you?
Ten minutes of word searching revealed that there was no mention of TIA. Or DARPA. Or transaction data. Or anything else remotely resembling the subject. Safire probably saw a new sub-agency called HSARPA and thought it was DARPA, and pulled a bunch of stuff out of his butt from there.
Worse, it has become a matter of common knowledge that such obfuscation is a standard tactic used to enact outragously self-serving, abusive, or otherwise unacceptable agendas that would get the sponsoring politician tarred and feathered if advanced in the light of day.
Hey, I've read most of the initial bill as passed by the House, and now I've started reading the final bill. It isn't that hard - five, six hours of reading is sufficient. Plus, Bob Barr, of all people, fell for Safire's claims, and later retracted. You would think that a Congressman would have a staffer verify that information before publicly commenting on it.
Frankly, the feds have only themselves to blame if people assume the worst. They've come to this well too often, and now somebody's gone and peed in it.
I think there's a lot more to it than that. What is a more controversial talk-radio topic - "The Homeland Security Act: A Net Increase in Privacy?", or "The Homeland Security Act: The End of the Republic as We Know It!" - I have e-mailed corrective information to a certain talk-radio host regarding this matter, and he refuses to correct his statements, as opposed to the Cato Institute, who corrected the same error on their home page. Certain elements in the conservative and libertarian media will always not only assume the worst, but try and fan the flames of perception because it's good for ratings. That is what I am seeing here, and I don't like it.
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