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Roswell Incident Had Victims, Program Says
AP | 11/22/02

Posted on 11/22/2002 8:42:49 PM PST by Davea

Roswell Incident Had Victims, Program Says

By RICHARD BENKE | The Associated Press 11/22/2002

ALBUQUERQUE - While he told the world that a weather balloon went down in Roswell, an Army general had in his hand a memo telling Pentagon brass of a UFO crash with "victims," according to a new television documentary.

A computer analysis of that memo, held by Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey during a July 1947 press briefing, is the "smoking gun" of the Roswell Incident, researchers say in the documentary being broadcast today on the Sci-Fi Channel.

Using a digital photo scanner to enlarge and enhance words printed on the folded piece of paper Ramey held, and using another computer program to select the most likely words, researcher David Rudiak, who has a Ph.D. in physics from UC Berkeley, found two key phrases: "the victims of the wreck" and "in the 'disc' they will ship."

With the textual study plus University of New Mexico archaeological findings from one of three alleged UFO crash sites, science fiction seeks to close the gap with fact, producers say.

A photograph taken July 8, 1947, in Fort Worth, Texas, by James Bond Johnson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram shows Ramey clutching a communique to Washington, D.C., while he displays a deflated weather balloon just hours after other Army officers in Roswell had reported a UFO crash.

It was one of a series of inconsistent military reports about the incident, which has become part of American mythology.

"Unless national security is at stake, there is absolutely no reason to keep this information from the public," said Thomas Vitale, a Sci-Fi Channel vice president. "Whatever crashed at Roswell, let us know what the truth is."

The Air Force had responded to a 1994 call from the late U.S. Rep. Steve Schiff, R-N.M., by saying it had no information on the Roswell Incident. Schiff, an Air Force reserve judge advocate general's officer, then took his query to the General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress.

In 1997, the Air Force acknowledged the weather balloon had been a false cover story, but a new story also was called into question. In a report written by Lt. William McAndrew, the Air Force suggested reports of alien bodies in the wreckage must have originated because of a crash-test program in which mannequins were dropped from balloons. The mannequins did not come close to matching 1947 descriptions of alien bodies, and the crash-test program was not introduced until 1953, Rudiak said.

Sci-Fi, guided by longtime Roswell UFO researchers Tom Carey and Don Schmitt, commissioned William Doleman, an archaeologist with UNM's Maxwell Museum of Anthropology, to excavate the alleged initial crash contact point on the ranch where the late Mack Brazel worked as foreman.

Doleman said he knows little about the Roswell Incident but agreed to excavate the site using purely scientific methods because it is "culturally significant" and because so much of what is circulated about the Roswell crash landing is based on hearsay. What was needed, Doleman said, was physical evidence.

"So this project is a very bold step by people who claim to know what happened and where it happened," Doleman said. "What makes it bold is they were willing to go out there and look for physical evidence."

Details of the excavation are being kept confidential until after today's premiere. But Doleman said he agrees "that obviously something happened in July 1947 in southeastern New Mexico." After his work there, though, he said, "I'm still uncertain" about UFOs and alien beings.

The documentary will introduce some witnesses who have not been heard from publicly before, attesting to the existence of alien bodies in the wreckage of the "flying disc," Carey said by phone from his home in Pennsylvania.

"This is where we loaded the bodies," he quotes one New Mexico witness, Robert Slusher, as saying. Slusher, among those appearing in the documentary, was part of a B-29 crew that he said loaded bodies up through the plane's bomb bay at the Roswell Army Airfield.

Three victims were supposedly recovered from the final crash site, and a team of archaeologists, coincidentally, were in the area doing research on ancient Indians at the time, Carey said. Among them was Curry Holden, an archaeologist from Texas Tech in Lubbock, whom Carey located in 1992.

"Curry Holden said he saw everything - the craft and the bodies," Carey said. Holden died a few months later.

Carey, an investigator for a private corporation, said he started looking into Roswell 12 years ago "as a hobby."

But it became more than that. And now, he said, he and Schmitt are in a race against time, as witnesses become scarcer.

©Santa Fe New Mexican 2002


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: littlegreenies; roswell
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To: Senator Pardek
I question the sanity of those who believe that in the 130+ BILLION(yes, with a B) estimated galaxies(and this an estimate I remember from a couple of years ago), that the Earth is the only planet with life on it.

And it's not like the Government hasn't lied to us before.

41 posted on 11/22/2002 10:07:50 PM PST by SengirV
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To: RGSpincich
You might be onto something. Read Nick Cook's "The Hunt for Zero Point".
42 posted on 11/22/2002 10:09:19 PM PST by mark_interrupted
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To: harrowup
WOW, some fair-mindedness from a nonbeliever in this thread. How refreshing.

Thanks.
43 posted on 11/22/2002 10:10:29 PM PST by Quix
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To: Quix
So, the Ramey memo has now been shown to talk about "victims" and "disc" etc.
Sounds like a bit of confirmation to me.

This brings up one problem in my opinion...Rudiak speculates from digital enhancement and claims the General was holding a telex...

...David Rudiak, who has a Ph.D. in physics from UC Berkeley, found two key phrases: "the victims of the wreck" and "in the 'disc' they will ship."

No AAF General is ever going to say wreck. He might say wreckage or crash but never plebian wreck.

44 posted on 11/22/2002 10:11:44 PM PST by harrowup
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To: harrowup
In my Navy Radioman Cryptographer job, I handled tons of highly classified documents. The sorts of phrases and sentences you presume to have been redacted don't look like the redactions in the document shown on the program--by a wide margin.
45 posted on 11/22/2002 10:14:32 PM PST by Quix
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To: Joe 6-pack
It APPEARS SOMEWHAT that your mind MAY be open fractionally enough to be influenced by quality evidence. I'd be keenly interested if you read the entire 570 pages of Greer's newly published book DISCLOSURE

whether you'd come away with your feelings/opinions now entirely intact. That would be very interesting.
46 posted on 11/22/2002 10:17:58 PM PST by Quix
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To: Davea
As a New Mexican I would like to invite everyone out here to spend their money
47 posted on 11/22/2002 10:20:39 PM PST by woofie
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To: harrowup
Whether such a person would use "wreck" vs wreckage etc. DEPENDS ON MANY FACTORS.

1) What was the preferred vocabulary in the family he grew up in . . . in the region he grew up in . . . among the friends he played with . . .

2) How much of an independent personality was he in terms of his lifestyle, word uses etc.

3) What era he grew up in.

4) What post was he stationed at in what year. How rural was it etc.

5) Many military message writers naturally and others were so encouraged to use short words where possible to speed communications. . . . a practice Radiomen typing on clunky teletypes greatly appreciated.
48 posted on 11/22/2002 10:23:22 PM PST by Quix
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To: Quix
WOW, some fair-mindedness from a nonbeliever in this thread. How refreshing.
Thanks.

I believe the government lied and continues to lie. I believe something containing life crashed in Roswell and some monkey's orphaned children are living high on the hog in Tahiti.

I have met the daughter of one of the base cadre and she insists that her father never would talk about the crash until he became angry with the admissions that the 'weather balloon' was a hoax...since he had been sworn to secrecy...on penalty of penury...and he said there were bodies...

And once more, I think they were monkeys but would be tremendously excited and pleased that they were really alf's...but if they were, I hope their relatives don't know how shabbily we've treated their remains.

49 posted on 11/22/2002 10:23:47 PM PST by harrowup
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To: Senator Pardek
It's amazing what you can find on FreeRepublic in just a few seconds. I mentioned other lies from the government and found a nice juicy one within 2 minutes of reading other threads

The Tuskegee Experiment, in which the U.S. government from 1932 to 1972 left poor blacks in Alabama untreated for syphilis in order to watch the disease's effect.
50 posted on 11/22/2002 10:24:36 PM PST by SengirV
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To: woofie
No thanks we have tens of thousands of aliens here in California. They are mostly illegal and wouldn't you know it, mostly Mexican.

Is there a connection? Will have to wait for part 2 of their special and see of they can get past just 3 illegals to investigate the tens of thousands running around in public in California.

Scary stuff....... boooooooooo!
51 posted on 11/22/2002 10:24:40 PM PST by A CA Guy
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To: SengirV
I question the sanity of those who believe that in the 130+ BILLION(yes, with a B) estimated galaxies(and this an estimate I remember from a couple of years ago), that the Earth is the only planet with life on it.

Who said anything about that? This has nothing to do with the idea that Aliens crash landed in Roswell. The universe could be teeming with life, that doesn't mean they are flying around down here. BTW, I am a UFO buff of at least 30 years, was a "true believer", have read up on it for ages, but it came to a point where the evidence was just lacking. I am agnostic on the subject, but being from the Midwest, close to Missouri, I say, Show Me!

Occam is my friend, and so far, this "smoking gun" could be alternatively explained by any number of alternative hypothesis that would easily be more plausible than "Aliens have the technology to cross vast stretches of time and space, but OOPS!, poor aliens go BOOM."

52 posted on 11/22/2002 10:24:56 PM PST by Paradox
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To: Quix
I've not read, "Disclosure," and would be interested in it's salient points. Having said that, here's another plausible explanation...Supersonic research was at it's height around that time-frame; Yeager broke the SB in October '47. Isn't it possible that the gov't lost 1 or 2 test pilots in the run-up? Is it possible the gov't pledged anonymity to the families of said test pilots, esp. in that erea, if they came from Ex-Nazi, Japanese, Sovier or E. European families?

At that point in history, the world's most experienced rocket and jet pilots were nazi's and japanese. The U.S. and Brits had some minor experience in the XP-59 and Gloster Meteor, but nothing to compare with the Komet, the Me-262 or some of the rocket propelled Kamikaze bombs. Just one other, equally well documented, speculative theory. Aliens, possibly...just not of the extraterrestrial sort.

53 posted on 11/22/2002 10:27:55 PM PST by Joe 6-pack
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To: Quix
5) Many military message writers naturally and others were so encouraged to use short words where possible to speed communications. . . . a practice Radiomen typing on clunky teletypes greatly appreciated.

All of your points have merit but this one I have an answer for...crash and wreck are both short and I've seen enough klunky teletype machines to agree with your thoughts on the matter.

54 posted on 11/22/2002 10:28:11 PM PST by harrowup
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To: harrowup
Monkey's is not at all the most plausible explanation for volumes upon volumes of evidence.

BTW, what is your impression of the individuals on the still showing ABUDCTION DIARY program?
55 posted on 11/22/2002 10:29:41 PM PST by Quix
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To: Nick Danger
Food for thought:

On July 2, 1947, something crashed on Mac Brazel's ranch outside Roswell. Whatever that something was, when the Air Force recovered it six days later, they initially claimed it was a flying saucer.

Exactly 273 after the crash, on March 31, 1948, Albert Gore, Jr. was born.

The typical human gestation period is 273 days.

56 posted on 11/22/2002 10:29:57 PM PST by Fabozz
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To: Senator Pardek; LurkerNoMore!
I merely questioned the sanity of those who believe aliens crashed in New Mexico.

You mean they didn't?

57 posted on 11/22/2002 10:30:16 PM PST by Fred Mertz
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To: Paradox
I believe faithful application of Occam's razor is not kind to your conclusions--at least not from my decades of study.
58 posted on 11/22/2002 10:32:20 PM PST by Quix
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To: Fabozz
Sorry, we already know the origin of this toad and the dad was a racist Senator. Any alien connection would have been a vast improvement compared to the actual facts.
59 posted on 11/22/2002 10:32:40 PM PST by A CA Guy
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To: Quix
There is the distinct possibility that a balloon figured in the accidental downing of a 509th flight with atomic weapons on board, or the downing of a very secret test aircraft, like the predecessor to our space vehicles. A vehicle named the 'dinasoara' (I think that's correct) was being developed for if and when we achieved space flight -it was an experimental lifting body design. The definitive argument for the flight being extra-terrestrial in origin is yet to be made.
60 posted on 11/22/2002 10:34:20 PM PST by MHGinTN
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