Posted on 11/22/2002 7:25:25 PM PST by where's_the_Outrage?
NASHINGTO- Teddy Roosevelt, sitting proudly on his oil-W painted horse in the White House room with his name, must have been horrified at Dr. Condoleezza Rice.
As President Bush's national security advisor, she should have known better. She wasn't supposed to say that. Not in a White House peopled with conservative Republicans. Not to a group of black columnists representing major newspapers from around the country.
Not in the Roosevelt Room.
''Race matters in America,'' Rice said. ''It has, it always has. Maybe there will be a day when it doesn't, but I suspect that it will for a long time to come.''
For the record, Rice didn't stutter or backtrack at the end of her interview with the Trotter Group. Instead, she did something that black conservatives aren't known for: She publicly acknowledged the reality and validity of the race question.
Now before you right-wingers get your boxers in a bunch, take a breath. She didn't go Al Sharpton on us, pledging to support reparations. She didn't say that Bush would apologize for the U.S. government's role in the slave trade.
But Rice did increase her credibility with us by affirming her place in the continuing cultural and political struggle that black people in the United States are engaged in - and she did it on her own terms.
Black conservatives, take note: It's OK to admit that race is still a problem in this country. You don't have to sink into denial. The sky won't fall down. The ground won't swallow you up.
It doesn't mean that you have to join Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition, take Congresswoman Maxine Waters to lunch or join the NAACP.
It's safe to take your heads out of the sand and face the truth: While the United States has made tremendous progress on race, it still has a long way to go.
The December 2002/January 2003 edition of Savoy magazine has an extensive article on a class-action discrimination lawsuit that has been filed against Xerox. The plaintiffs contend that sales territories are segregated, promotions are race-based and harassment can take the form of hanging nooses being displayed in some Xerox facilities.
Xerox denies any discrimination, but there is plenty of reason to doubt its denial. According to Savoy writer Marjorie Whigham-Desir, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission dismisses about 80 percent of the complaints lodged by citizens against employers believed to be discriminatory. But Whigham-Desir reported that the EEOC has affirmed the group and individual complaints against Xerox, finding that ''reasonable cause exists to believe'' the charges that the plaintiffs have made.
And in case you Bill Clinton-haters out there are wondering, this is the 2002 Bush EEOC, not that old, tired Clinton-era model.
So maybe Rice isn't alone in the Bush White House. Maybe the GOP is slowing veering away from the Republican Party of 1964, which dealt a fatal blow to race relations during the GOP Convention led by Sen. Barry Goldwater's Cow Palace Republicans in San Francisco. These Republicans were so hostile toward blacks that Hall-of-Famer and convention attendee Jackie Robinson said: ''I now believe I know how it felt to be a Jew in Hitler's Germany.''
At least we can take comfort in knowing that the Bush administration, whatever it's other faults may be, doesn't buy into the lies that have blocked qualified blacks from serving at the highest levels of government. Certainly, it's a good sign that Rice and Secretary of State Colin Powell hold two of the top four slots in the Bush White House, a point not lost on Rice.
''I think it says to people that there aren't boundaries in which black Americans are not supposed to play,'' she said. ''I think that's an extremely important message to the rest of the world.
''I am African American and proud of it,'' Rice said later. ''I wouldn't have it any other way. I do not believe that it has limited who I am or what I can become.''
Conservative or not, I can respect that. And frankly, it's easier to respect people with whom you disagree when you know you share an appreciation for your common experiences. And so under Teddy Roosevelt's watchful, if skeptical gaze, Condoleezza Rice - a fan of Motown, Clarence ''Gatemouth'' Brown and Kool and the Gang as well as Brahms - gave and gained a lot of respect last week.
David Person's column appears each Friday on the Commentary page. E-mail: davidpe@htimes.com; phone 532-4362.
You've changed your tune, now, by claiming that the English hodge-podge is because of " cousins " intermarrying. You managed to completely omit the Eastern Euros, on the first round, and now, NOW, you're claiming that you can " easily " differenciate ALL of the various ethnic groups, wherever you may be, with absolutely no trouble; not ever. Do you also guess weights at fun fairs ?
The British Isles have been SO overrun, from time immemorial, by all sorts of different peoples / ethnicities, that you'd be hard pressed to find the prototypical " Englishman " ! The Fox brothers look distinctly German, Lawrence Olivier looked NOTHING at all like them; yet they're all Brits. How about the German House of Windsor bunch? Do all of them look out of place in England ? I can go on and on, giving you example after another, and you'd still ignore the facts. LOL
Let's see, Sean Connery is a Scot. So was King James I. They look alike ?
Many Spanish people are blonde and blue eyed. The Spainish; however, were invaded and intermarried with Italians, Germans, Austrians. Were ALL of those ethnicities also " cousins " ? The ancient Romans didn't seem to think that the Germans were much like them at all.
As for the term NORDIC, that has always been used to describe Scandinavians ; you know, folks from Norway and Sweden. The Danes too.
All peoples, from any one specific nation, don't look alike. You're steriotyping and I doubt that you could accurately guess, who was from where, originally, if they kept their mouths shut, from a grouping of several Euro countries. I could easily dig up a group of Germans,Brits, Americans, Spaniards, and even Italians, stick 500 head shots on a board, and you couldn't properly label just who was what, with a 40 % accuracy level. WHY ? Because with millenia of travel and intermarriage, there are few people, on the entire planet, who are of one, pure ( you just keep verging into rather strange waters ! )ethnic type.
I can tell the difference amongst Chinese ( and whether they are from the North or the South )and Japanese, and Korean. Most people have some trouble with that. I can sometimes tell the ethnicities of people I don't know ; but not always. There aren't such hard and fast rules anymore.
You don't want your theoretical ( I assume you have none yet ) children and grandchildren to marry a Greek or Albanian, or goodness knows what else, because you want some imagined " ideal " blonde, blue eyed, " pure " progeny. That's okay; however, you can't regulate other's choices as easily as you concietedly claim you can. If your child meets and falls in love with an American of Greek heritage, let's say, and is an adult, you're going to do exactly what ? Disinherit him or her ? Or just raise your kids to be bigots ? Oh and BTW, there are still a LOT of blonde ( born that way ) Greeks.
RH- was NOT always a Caucazoid majority and yes, you DID so imply; earlier on.
Just keep on digging that hole, dear. You're just too witless to stop. LOL
There ya go. Race matters ok- now move on and do the best you can with what you got.
Wrong. While it is true the Scots less mixed than the English and the Irish,this is only true of the "Highland Scots". They are the ones that kept to themselves,and were originally Picts. From what I have seen and heard,they get along with the Irish better than the lowland Scots. The "purest" blood in on that little island are the Welsh. There are DNA matches between some of the local villagers there and pre-historic remains that prove those blood lines have remained in that one area for thousands of years.
BTW,my own RH factor is neither + OR -. People who have type A blood with either can use my blood,and I can take transfusions from either group.
I agree,but last time I checked,Governor was a state office.
She should go for nothing less than a Senate seat or governor if she doesn't go for POTUS or VPOTUS.
I'd rather see her take away Boxer's Senate seat. Yeah, she can always go for the US Senate after being Governor, but a Senator has more national impact,and why wait?
She flat-ass ain't qualified to be either POTUS OR VPOUS. She's never been elected to squat,only appointed.
I agree,but last time I checked,Governor was a state office.
I meant state offices whose visibility is usually limited to the state capitol or the area being represented. That doesn't apply to Governor, US Senator or some US congresscritter positions.
Yes Ms Rice, and it's still a very valuable tool for the extremist left. Fortunately, the tool is becoming very worn out.
I wish all peoples well, provided they are not out to wreak havoc on the world.
I would actively discourage my children from pursuing an inter-racial relationship, just as much as I would discourage them from marrying a non-Catholic, or from marrying a foreigner and moving overseas (even if the foreigner was white like me). Frankly, I think it is more than likely to all end in tears. And I don't need to hear from one thousand and one people in inter-racial relationships who think it is so great for them right now and so why should I oppose it?
Rh- blood was clearly much more predominant in all Europeans 2000 years ago, just like blonde and red hair and blue eyes were. It has tended over time to die out because it is a recessive trait.
I'm still waiting to hear just who all these vastly different people invading Britain were. Last time I travelled the North Sea coast, people in Antwerp, Frisia and Hamburg and Oslo looked pretty darn similar. And gosh if they didn't look similar to people in East Anglia, Inverness, and Edinburgh.
The Nordics are clearly much more widespread than just Scandanavia. Nordic refers to the phenotype of humans who are tall, long headed, blonde/red-blonde hair, and blue eyes. There are plenty of these to be found in Holland, France, England, Scotland, Germany, Lithuania, Ukraine, Russia, etc.
The vast majority of Spaniards are Celto-Iberic. The numbers of Greeks, Romans, and Germans (Vandals) who moved in are infinitesimal compared to the base population. Why is this so hard for you to grasp? 5 million Spaniards easily overwhelmed the genetics of 50,000 Vandals, just as did the Alpine type Celtic northern Italians to the minority German Lombards. Small groups of conquerers such as you site are inevitably subsummed and rarely make a significant alteration in the base population genetics. A significant alteration takes a sustained settlement effort (as with the Germans in Prussia, Silesia, and Austria), a mixing of two or more peoples in a newly settled area (as with the Norse and Gaels in Iceland), or a enormous annhilation of people (as in Russia under the Communists, or Germany after the 30 Years War).
I wish my children to marry people who look like my and my wife's families, who have the Catholic faith, and simiar politics. And yes, I'll raise them to think that way, regardless of whether you want to call us bigots or not. If my daughter tried to go against my wishes, I'd politely but firmly remind her just who she is expecting is to pay for her marriage and set her up in life and suggest she respect my wishes. As long as she is living in my house (and the same for my son), I would simply forbid them from dating people I do not approve of.
I guess you think me terribly old fashioned, but my children will not be allowed to simply do as they please. We are not followers of Alastair Crowley.
Yea, your a real bright one. lol.
Height has little to do with the " purity " of an ethnic group, insofar as you're trying to make it seem. Northern Chinese are historically MUCH larher than those wwho have always peopled Southern China. They aren't from different subdivisions of Asiatics. Up until quite recently, those belonging to the UPPER classes, were ALWAYS taller than those in the lower classes; especially those who belonged to the " underclass" ! Diet and genes ; but, mostly diet played the important factor in height.
You have previously claimed, as a certaintude, that due to the influx of various different peoples, into Greece, their physical characteristics changed; yet, now, NOW, you state that a handful of Italians ( think Roman army ), Austrians, and French, didn't do much of anything to the indiginous populace of ancient Spain / Middle Ages Spain ? YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS !
Earlier, you have also stated, that you can tell a Pole from a Brit, from German, etc. at 50 paces . Now, you claim that Frisians and English et al, are indistinguishable from one another. Again ... YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS !
You're dead wrong, about just about every single " fact ", that you have thus far stated as " true ", concerning physical characteristics. Your anthropological inventions are ridiculous, and okay, I'm going to have to break the net rule and just say it ... you come off sounding not " old fashioned, but like a Nazi.
Yes, there are some " truths " in steriotypes; but they are far less consitant, than you suppose. OTOH, YOU , on this thread, have just proved to be, what so many here, don't want to be associated with Conservatives !
Which Russians are you talking about ? The Slavic ones, the ones who are descended from the Germans, that Ivan the Terrible imported, the Latvians , who were taken over by the USSSR, or something other , like the aristocracy, who mingled their bloodlines with the other Royal houses of ALL of Europe ? When you finally do read something, other than the Aryan propaganda, which you've been spewing here, get back to us. LOL
Oh, so you think that you are going to be able to program your future children, into some kind of unthinking , cloned you ? And, you're going to be able to do THAT, living in society, and not in some remote, homogenious commune ? You really are just too, too funny for words! The chances are about 50/50, that you'll raise another bigot. More than likely, your future progeny ( what the world doesn't need ! ), will rebel / be turned off by your positions; though I admit that your mother ( from what you've said about her ) did a rather good job of turning you into the nasty piece of work , you've turned out to be.
BTW, I'd REALLY like to know what sources you've used, that state the crazy things you've been saying. There is little proof, as to what people looked like 2000 years ago ; let alone their RH factors...which weren't even known about, that far back.LOL
As for the RH factor...take that up with the person, who began all of this stuff. Just don't expect to get a rational answer, as he doesn't know what he's talking about. :-)
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