In historic speech, Pope urges Italians to have more children to reverse declining birth rate

Associated Press ^ | 11-14-02 | NICOLE WINFIELD

[Oldeconomybuyer]

ROME (AP) --

[twigs]

Freepers should be having more get-togethers. It's really not a bad idea!

[Desdemona]

Freepers should be having more get-togethers. It's really not a bad idea!

No, not a bad idea at all.

[Antoninus]

I love to post the following comments from Teddy Roosevelt on all of these "declining birth-rate" threads. The thread they're originally from is here:

Teddy Roosevelt, the Family, Contraception, and Life Issues[my title]

On motherhood as the true source of progress, Teddy Roosevelt said:

"A more supreme instance of unselfishness than is afforded by motherhood cannot be imagined."

Before an audience of liberal Christian theologians in 1911, he said:

"If you do not believe in your own stock enough to see the stock kept up, then you are not good Americans, you are not patriots, and ... I for one shall not mourn your extinction; and in such event I shall welcome the advent of a new race that will take your place, because you wil have shown that you are not fit to cumber the ground."

On the centrality of the child-rich family to the very existence of the American nation:

"It is in the life of the family, upon which in the last analysis the whole welfare of the nation rests....The nation is nothing but the aggregate of the families within its borders."

On parenthood:

"No other success in life, not being President, or being wealthy, or going to college, or anything else, comes up to the success of the man and woman who can feel that they have done their duty and that their children and grandchildren rise up to call them blessed."

On out-of-wedlock birth versus practiced sterility:

"After all, such a vice may be compatible with a nation's continuing to live, and while there is life, even a life marred by wrong practices, there is a chance of reform.

In another place, on the same subject:

"...[W]hile there is life, there is hope, whereas nothing can be done with the dead."

On the behavior of 90% of those who practice birth control:

"[It is derived] from viciousness, coldness, shallow-heartedness, self-indulgence, or mere failure to appreciate aright the difference between the all-important and the unimportant."

On the "pitiable" child-rearing record of graduates of women's colleges like Vassar and Smith who bore only 0.86 of a child each during their lifetimes:

"Do these colleges teach 'domestic science'?... There is something radically wrong with the home training and school training that produces such results."

[Alberta's Child]

To a certain extent I have to agree with Sinkspur on this one. Pat Buchanan doesn't owe anyone an explanation for why he has no children, but when someone in that position engages in an ongoing public lament about a nation's declining birthrate he ought to expect the issue to be raised. Besides, he's had plenty of opportunities to set a good example -- perhaps by adopting some of those young Mexicans or Zulus that he's always complaining about, and raising them as the most ardent conservatives on the planet.

This would usually not be a big deal, but it isn't the first time Pat Buchanan exposed himself to charges of hypocrisy. I seem to remember his first Presidential campaign back in 1992, when he would show up at a campaign rally in Pennsylvania or West Virginia, launch an eloquent attack against the forces of globalism that were destroying the U.S. textile, steel, and auto industries, then get into his Mercedes-Benz and drive back to his posh Beltway home.

[Antoninus]

Hey Des, don't be so down. In this internet age, people with similar values aren't so difficult to find. I met my wife here:

Catholic Matchmaker

I never would have found her if not for the internet. Furthermore, my sister-in-law met her husband on the same web site. My business partner met his fiancee through the internet as well -- all because I had the word "Catholic" on my AOL profile.

So there's certainly no reason for gloom and doom. Where there's a will, there's a way.

[sitetest]

Dear AC,

It's ironic to be defending Mr. Buchanan, as I hold him in low esteem.

However, he doesn't owe you, me, sinkspur, or any other person on the planet, an explanation of his childlessness. If he is childless as a result of physical problems, then he and his wife have likely endured a great deal of pain, and it really isn't anyone else's business. People ought to mind their own business. Frankly, if that is the case for him and his wife, then I admire him for not having "oprahed" all over the United States about it.

As to adoption, while the vast majority of people are perfectly capable of having children and successfully rearing them, not everyone ought to adopt children.


sitetest

[mewzilla]

The Catholic Church lsot my respect a while ago. It's tolerance for cafeteria Catholics, it's permissiveness regarding divorce. But the last straw was the enabling of and covering for its pedophile priests. Now who sounds like a lib, me or the Catholic Church?

[Gophack]

I don't know if you are a Catholic, were a Catholic, or never were a Catholic. There are some problems with some diocese in not properly upholding the teachings of the Catholic Church regarding abortion, birth control, divorce, etc. But that doesn't mean the Church is in error. If you believe that the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago, and that the beliefs of the Catholic Church are the Truth, then you have to stay a Catholic, regardless of the personal human failings of other Catholics, some priests, some Cardinals and even some Popes.

Remember, MOST of the priests involved in the scandals were homosexual priests preying on teen-age, post-pubescent boys. They are not pedophiles preying on little boys and girls. The problem was permissiveness in some seminaries, and outright condoning the homosexual lifestyle. But all of that is contradictory to the teaching of the Church.

When the laity throw in the towel and leave the church because of human sin, they are really turning their back on Jesus Christ. Because as a Catholic, we believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, and we believe that our suffering -- and the suffering of the Church -- can be united with the suffering of Jesus on the Cross, ultimately bring us closer to God in faith.

Anyway, that's my opinion. I am becoming more grounded in my faith as I pray and combat the secularism of some Catholics, but I know many, many Catholics who are devout and live as best they can in the way of the Church. I openly talk in my parish even among parishioners who I know are not in agreement with the teachings about being pro-life, the evils of contraception, the evil of divorce and remarriage, the importance of following the teachings of the church. It's up to us. And there are many, many good priests who help as well. Not all of them have fallen so horribly.

God bless.

[Gophack]

Great find on Teddy Roosevelt! I didn't realize contraception was such a controversy or so widely practiced nearly 100 years ago.

[sinkspur]

Is the Catechism teaching on the Death Penalty Doctrine or not?

It is not. There is no rationale given for a 180 degree turn from the doctrine which has been a part of Christian tradition for 2000 years.

[Alberta's Child]

However, he doesn't owe you, me, sinkspur, or any other person on the planet, an explanation of his childlessness.

That's exactly what I said in my post. All I said beyond that was that he should be prepared to have that question come up. His credibility would improve dramatically if he either explained himself or simply found something else to complain about.

The pot may have a damned good (private) reason to be black, but if he calls the kettle black he should expect to be taken to task for it.

[sinkspur]

It's especially contentious looking for people with the same values.

And it is true that many people who want(ed) more children don't have more because it just doesn't happen, not through any artificial means. I know a lot of those.

Then there are the materialists....

If you hold out for perfection, Desi, you'll never find your other half.

You might relax a bit and stop imprinting on every man you meet.

I also sense some longing. Stop "looking." Men don't date women who are "looking."

Men are also absolutely scared to death of women who are on a biological clock.

[riley1992]

In human history, prosperity and idependence from institutions of church nd state come from a declining birthrate.

What about those who toiled their own land without help from the government and reared many off-spring to aid in this?

[Deep_6]

re:
"..When ppl don't know their income and life style tomorow they
have children later in their life thus 0 1 or 2 max...."

I've been in enough ghettos to see the 4-10 children of 20+ year old
un-wed moms to know you're not being realistic.

It has nothing to do with politics, aside from having one party making
life more difficult through it's meaningless legislation.

And no, I'm not some socialistic liberal when I say that we have to
help others not so fortunate, to survive. Otherwise, we are left with
the burden of the mess they eventually create from surviving by chance.

Public schools work best when kept at bay, but If parents do not care,
it matters little if it's a private or public school their child attends.

 

[Land of the Irish]

Is this also Church Doctrine?:

Christians and Muslims believe in the same God, the one God

"Along the path marked out by Abraham in his submission to the divine will, we find his descendant, the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of Jesus, who is also devoutly invoked by Muslims, especially in popular piety. 2. We Christians joyfully recognize the religious values we have in common with Islam. Today I would like to repeat what I said to young Muslims some years ago in Casablanca: "We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection" (Insegnamenti, VIII/2, [1985], p. 497). The patrimony of revealed texts in the Bible speaks unanimously of the oneness of God. Jesus himself reaffirms it, making Israel's profession his own: "The Lord our God, the Lord is one" (Mk 12:29; cf. Dt 6:4-5). This oneness is also affirmed in the words of praise that spring from the heart of the Apostle Paul: "To the king of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen'"(1 Tm 1:17)."

Pope John Paul II May 5, 1999

[Desdemona]

I also sense some longing. Stop "looking." Men don't date women who are "looking."

Well, I quit "looking" a long time ago. If it happens fine. If not, there's nothing I can do about it.

My standards are not astronomical, but they're not low and I am not about to lower them. At the very least, the guy needs to shower every day and be able keep up with me, short thing that I am, walking a 17 minute mile.

Biological clock? Guys are intimidated by brains. DOn't fool yourself. Blonde, busty and brainy apparently is not a good combination. Neither is good posture, confidence and morals.

Nobody's perfect...except Jesus and me, of course.

[Deep_6]

re:
"....Moron...."

 

 

Idiot.

 

[sinkspur]

Blonde, busty and brainy apparently is not a good combination. Neither is good posture, confidence and morals.

Desdie, you might want to get out more. If this is an accurate description, I know three Texans who'd fly to meet you tomorrow!

[Palladin]

Great picture! It's so nice to see the nuns wearing their habits.