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In historic speech, Pope urges Italians to have more children to reverse declining birth rate
Associated Press ^ | 11-14-02 | NICOLE WINFIELD

Posted on 11/14/2002 3:41:02 AM PST by Oldeconomybuyer

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:41:23 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

ROME (AP) --

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; pope
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To: pgkdan
vivat jesu!
41 posted on 11/14/2002 9:51:32 AM PST by el_chupacabra
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To: Irisshlass
What lack of respect and prudence you have such a great man, warrior and saint...I'm disgusted..

Sorry if I offended you, as I apparently did.

The Pope, on the other hand, can take the criticism.

What is "prudent" is for the Pope to not recommend clemncy for criminals.

42 posted on 11/14/2002 9:53:07 AM PST by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
Birth rates always decline as countries become more economically secure. That's just the way it is.

Oh, get real, Sinky. The Italian birth rate is at 1.49 children per woman. When a society's birth rate goes below the replacement level (call it 2.1 children per woman), that society is on the road to extinction. That's mathematics, not religion.

If what you're trying to say is that societies that are economically secure are invariably enroute to extinction, then I guess economic security is a bad thing.

43 posted on 11/14/2002 9:55:12 AM PST by Campion
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To: *Catholic_list
Pope surrounded by nuns
Pope John Paul II is surrounded by nuns at the end of his general audience in the Paul VI hall at the Vatican, Wednesday, Nov. 13, 2002. (AP Photo/Pier Paolo Cito)
44 posted on 11/14/2002 10:12:09 AM PST by ELS
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To: sinkspur
What is "prudent" is for the Pope to not recommend clemncy for criminals.

I disagree...the reason being here in the states, some states have what you call minimum mandatory sentences...life with no parole for drug offenses and these are for first time offenders or being with someone and unaware of the possession of substances...these are not drug king pens that have been convicted...I'm not against punishment for the possession and sale of drugs, 10, 20 years or so...life with no parole yes, when murderers and rapists are out in 5...
45 posted on 11/14/2002 10:17:19 AM PST by Irisshlass
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To: ELS
I love this picture!!!!!
46 posted on 11/14/2002 10:18:47 AM PST by Irisshlass
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To: ELS

Pope John Paul II waves to Italian MPs gathered in the Italian Chamber of Deputies in Rome Thursday, Nov. 14, 2002, as he leaves after his visit. (AP Photo/Enrico Oliverio-Ufficio Stampa della Presidenza della Repubblica).
47 posted on 11/14/2002 10:21:57 AM PST by ELS
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To: Irisshlass
Me, too. I wish I could have found a larger version of it.
48 posted on 11/14/2002 10:23:29 AM PST by ELS
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To: pgkdan
I think we are the foot of the cross...only way to go is to look up...:)
49 posted on 11/14/2002 10:23:32 AM PST by Irisshlass
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To: ELS
Ah..there He is..I love him so much...:)
50 posted on 11/14/2002 10:25:00 AM PST by Irisshlass
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To: TopQuark
What has happened is a loss of faith in traditional institutions such as family and church. Only when one gets to extreme old age and one's contemporaries are dying daily does one see the value in real relationships. But even then many simply want escape. Morphine anyone? "...and the band played on. "
51 posted on 11/14/2002 10:25:04 AM PST by RobbyS
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To: sinkspur
The Catholic Church, frankly, has little to say in the area of criminal justice.

<> What it does have to say is, per usual, corect<>

The Holy Father opposes capital punishment and, now, appears to advocate periodic sentence reductions.

<> God Bless the Pope. His words harken back to an old tradition. In better days, European Christian Kings would routinely free prisoners during certain Holy Days.<>

What's next? One free rape? No penalty for five-finger discounts under a grand?

<> How about six months at Ryker's for questions having nothing to do with the topic?<>

I remember the irony of Pat Buchanan encouraging folks in countries with predominantly white populations to have more children when Pat never had any children himself.

<> Perhaps there are physical reasons you do not know about<>

52 posted on 11/14/2002 10:28:14 AM PST by Catholicguy
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To: RobbyS
What has happened is a loss of faith in traditional institutions such as family and church. Only when one gets to extreme old age and one's contemporaries are dying daily does one see the value in real relationships.

Hear, hear. Very true. And when you and your 5 siblings, who between you have had one child, reach old age and realize you are really on your own....

BTW, I'm nowhere close to old age. I'm just watching a lot of relatives. Fortunately, there's a lot of us.
53 posted on 11/14/2002 10:28:20 AM PST by Desdemona
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To: sinkspur
If he were squeezed, the Pope would say that in "this day and age" capital punishment should almost never be an option. But, you're right, the issue is not part of the deposit of faith and one can disagree with the Pope on this one and still be a very good Catholic

<> Is the Catechism teaching on the Death Penalty Doctrine or not?

Can a Catholic reject Doctrine and be considered a "good Catholic?" Cite a Magisterial Document to back-up your assertion<>

54 posted on 11/14/2002 10:31:26 AM PST by Catholicguy
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To: Desdemona
I will --God willing--attend the 50th reunion for my high school class. It is shocking to see how old everyone looks. The girls, of course, are married to men older than themselves, so that mortality is written on every brow. That is why I would never live in a retirement community where the young are forbidden to live.
55 posted on 11/14/2002 10:36:27 AM PST by RobbyS
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To: BlackElk
He could also give a well-deserved rest to the habit of racial preference expressed by his remark that 1000 Brits would fit in better than 1000 Zulu as Virginia citizens.

Is this "racial" preference or cultural preference?

I have no doubt whatsoever that 1000 Brits would fit in better than 1000 Zulu as Virginia citizens. And no, it's not because Zulu are darker-skinned. (Even dark-skinned, African-descended Brits would fit better than Zulus, you see.)

I'm not saying I'm a Buchanan fan (I'm not), it's just that you could have chosen, I imagine, a much worse quote of his to pick on. This one is, quite frankly, indisputable.

Although I am partially English, I am also partially Irish and have generally imagined the Zulu quite admirable based on Islandwhana, Roark's Drift

It seems like you are praising the Zulus' bravery and courage in swarming opponents on the battlefield. Uh, I won't argue, but what exactly does that have to do with how well they would fit in as citizens of the state of Virginia? Because they display selfless valor in rushing the enemy, they'd make good neighbors?

56 posted on 11/14/2002 10:42:29 AM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: RobbyS
True, all so true...
57 posted on 11/14/2002 10:42:36 AM PST by TopQuark
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To: Karl B
When ppl don't know their income and life style tomorow they have children later in their life thus 0 1 or 2 max.

This is ridiculous. How does this explain welfare moms with 7 children by 3 different fathers? They have no idea what their "income and life style" will be like tomorrow (because it all depends on the government). This must confuse you.

Too, you completely ignore the role of religion. Mormons and Catholics have large families for reasons which have nothing whatsoever to do with whether they "know their income and life style tomorrow".

Causes are todays liberal or right wing models of economy.

You seem confused. 1. I'll assume you are using "liberal" in the European sense, not the American sense (where it is usually used to mean leftist or socialist). 2. A model of the economy can't be "right wing" or "left wing". A model of the economy is either true or false. If it's true (i.e. the law of supply and demand) then what sense does a label like "right wing" or "left wing" make? 3. So I'll assume you meant to say not "model of the economy" but "economic policy" as in, laissez-faire (more or less). You blame what you call "right-wing" economic policy (namely, laissez-faire) for uncertainty about the future. 4. One problem is that we do not have a laissez-faire economy, by any stretch. Does 40-50 percent taxation with heavy regulation sound like laissez-faire to you? There is complete socialism for the poorest class. And that's here in the U.S., never mind the European "social democracies". So what are you talking about? 5. It is a fallacy to imply, as you do, that with left-wing economic policies (socialism) the people "know their income and life style tomorrow", but under "right-wing" policies (laissez-faire) they don't. People receiving government checks don't "know their life style tomorrow" because those government checks could change with every election. 7. It's more correct to say that people living under "left-wing" (socialist) economic policies don't take responsibility for their actions, because they have gotten used to the idea that the government takes care of them.

So, 8. In that sense you are correct to point out that "left-wing" economic policies encourage dependent people to have more children (because they are irresponsible) than "right-wing" policies do (because then people are responsible for their own behavior).

58 posted on 11/14/2002 10:57:07 AM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: pgkdan
Yes, I was referring to native births in both Italy and Germany. I remember seeing such an article a few years ago. My son was stationed in Germany for three years and he brought the article to my attention.
59 posted on 11/14/2002 11:07:42 AM PST by OldFriend
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To: el_chupacabra
Hey bro! Vivat Jesus!
60 posted on 11/14/2002 11:47:50 AM PST by pgkdan
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