FOXNEWS: FBI Uncovers Al-Qaeda Drugs-for-Arms Plot

FOXnews ^

[Thane_Banquo]

FOXnews just reported that the FBI has busted up an Al-Qaeda drugs-for-arms smuggling plot.

[Dialup Llama]

>Is legal tobacco run by criminals, terrorists and drug lords?

The Prohibition cautionary tale the libertarians like to preach on will not hold with legalizing drugs. Legal booze displaced moonshiners because they had a better product for a good price.

However, Phillip Morris and General Foods are not going to sell crack and heroin and neither are you going to have drugs at state stores in the US the way you have in some countries. Hence drugs will be the field for corner dealers, gangsters fighting for turf and terrorist drug lords EVEN IF LEAGALIZED. The profit margins will be less after legalization, but the massive profits will still be there, providing plenty of incentive for criminals.

[fella]

WooooooooooEeeeeee...... Your sure know how to push the buttons and raise the ire of the smacked-out fringe here at FReepers. Just look at how well free access to drugs has worked for the Euro's.

[Action-America]

What hypocrisy!

The administration makes a big deal about having made a few arrests in a single "drugs for arms" deal, while ignoring the fact that is is their own War on Drugs that made that deal possible at all.

Ashcroft praised the agents for the great personal risk that they faced, to bring these criminals to justice, while ignoring the fact that it is his own administration's policy that required them to be put at risk in the first place.

Not only has the War on Drugs been an absolute and unconditional failure, but it creates an artificially high price for those drugs, which makes the profit for drug dealing so high that the bad guys often use drugs as currency in such deals.  In fact, for every drug bust headline that we see, there are many other deals that the government never finds out about.  If drugs were legitimized and put under the control of licensed clinics, the price of street drugs would plummet to such a level that the terrorists would not be able to use drugs to even buy a truck load of sling shots, let alone missiles and we would not be uselessly putting put our brave agents at risk.  Those agents could then be retasked to handle crimes that could not be prevented.

It's time that Dubya and Ashcroft open their eyes and accept that it's their own War on Drugs that makes such headlines possible.  On the other hand, it's probably the desire for those headlines that's driving the War on Drugs and they could care less for the agents that they put at risk.

After all, headlines are the politician's drug.

 

[cake_crumb]

"Learn some supply and demand econimcs before making such absurd allegations"

ROFLOL!! By legalizing addictive drugs and ensuring unfettered public access TO those drugs, you will increase the number of addicts...which in turn INCREASES DEMAND...which allows the SUPPLIER to RAISE PRICES to WHATEVER THE MARKET WILL BEAR.

This is why there is PROFIT in selling legal things. Increased demand = higher prices. DECREASED demand, and/or INCREASED PRODUCTION (usually by a competitor, who gluts the market) DECREAS PRICES. If the product is in high demand and it's market value has lowered due to market glut, the price drop is TEMPORARY.

Once you control the market production of a super high-demand product, you can glut the market to discourage competitors....then simply create an artificial shortage in order to raise those prices back up and increase your own profit (uncontested by competitors) profit.

Don't give me the tired libertarian "alcohol and cigarrettes are legal" argument. Al Qaeda sells opuim, which is a heckuva lot more addictive and distructive than either of them.

[Grover_Cleveland]

However, Phillip Morris and General Foods are not going to sell crack and heroin and neither are you going to have drugs at state stores in the US the way you have in some countries. Hence drugs will be the field for corner dealers, gangsters fighting for turf and terrorist drug lords EVEN IF LEAGALIZED.

I believe that the Nevada proposal called for marijuana to be sold at state stores.

[cake_crumb]

"Start executing drug dealers."

LOL!

[lelio]

I think I'm mixing up the commercials. Is it pot = someone's death in the US and cocaine = death in Columbia?
Agree 100% with the BC theory. The cops up there don't enforce laws and aren't particularly keen on doing any work; a special on Dateline on the missing prostitutes up there showed them hooking in front of the station and they repeatedly ignored complaints about the pig farm.
Plus everyone that I know that's been up there from WA state has had their car broken into. Its just lawlessness up there. Course what's the alternative? Standing in line at a government run hospital? Not much in the way of opportunity.

[Britton J Wingfield]

They've also been smuggling cigarettes, from low-tax states to high-tax states. Maybe we should start executing tobacco farmers and smokers.

[Action-America]

Legal heroin would still be run by criminals, terrorists and drug lords because it generates cash and the drugs are a relatively compact store of value, even at the lower legalization prices.

Sorry, but you've bought into the Dubya/Ashcroft propaganda.  In fact, drugs that sell for $300-$500 on the street would have a legitimate commercial retail value of between $5 and $10 (including tax).  This is supported by demonstrated facts in the Swiss program.  Why would drug users want to pay 10 to 50 times more for drugs that could get them arrested, when they could get them legally, at a licensed clinic, for a fraction of the price.  Even the dopeheads are smart enough to figure that out.

I doubt the street price would decline much under legalization as that demand is inelastic.

Check out the facts.  In Switzerland, where drugs are available to addicts in government licensed clinics, the street price of drugs has effectively dropped to zero.  I use the word "effectively", because there is no way to determine the street price, since drugs are no longer available on the street in the areas where they have implemented their test program.  Furthermore, the demand has little to do with the price, since the cost of legitimate production is nominal.  (Note that the Swiss program has been so successful that they have extended it and are expanding it to other areas of the country.)

However the drug lords would lose margin under legalization which they would try to make up thru increased market share and volume.

So, what are they going to do to increase market share?  Lower prices?  Let'em try.  That's the whole idea.  They can't compete with the legitimate market.  As I pointed out above, even a totally spaced-out dopehead would see the logic.  Why risk arrest to buy an expensive product of unknown quality, when you can legally buy a pharmaceutical quality product for much less and not risk arrest.  It's a no-brainer.

I suggest that you read "The War on Drugs - Solution or Problem?" and "Federal Failure by Design - Lawmakers Give Terrorists a Pass", both of which contain many links to factual data (much of which was found buried in the US government's own data).  Those two articles explain the facts in much greater detail.

Note that we are not talking about unconditional legalization here, but rather conditional legitimization and controlled (and taxed) distribution.  It works in other countries, yet our own government is too concerned with the power that the War on Drugs gives them, to allow this or any variation of it to even be considered here.  In fact, the primary reason that many European countries have not already legitimized drug usage is because of pressure from the US government.

The government doesn't want to win the War on Drugs.  That's because it gives them virtually unlimited power to violate our Constitutional rights, particularly under the 4th Amendment and it generates splashy headlines like the one above.

Why else would otherwise intelligent politicos, adopt the attitude of throwing and more and more money at the same policies that have only failed to a greater and greater degree, as the amount of money increased?

 

[putupon]

I tend to say that primary violence (as a means of enforcing contracts) will decrease if drugs were legalized, but secondary violence (addicts breaking into homes, killing the occupants and stealing their goods) will increase.

If that were so, then lock them up for breaking into homes, killing the occupants and stealing their goods just like we already do with people who break into homes, kill the occupants and steal their goods for whatever motive.

[Action-America]

By legalizing addictive drugs and ensuring unfettered public access TO those drugs, you will increase the number of addicts...which in turn INCREASES DEMAND...

You are either intentionally or unintentionally equating unrestricted legalization with the controlled legitimization that most anti-WOD advocates support.  In fact, legalization failed miserably in Switzerland, when it was tried a decade or so ago (re: Needle Park).  But, their most recent drug policy has been a resounding success.  Sure, there are still many people on drugs there.  But, that number is going slowly, but steadily down.  Drug related violence has all but ended.  And, because only those who already have an addiction (easily proved) can enter the program and drugs are no longer available on the streets, there are virtually no new addicts.  Attrition will eventually reduce the number of addicts to close to zero.  (It's not reasonable to expect it to be completely eliminated, since there will always be a few real idiots out there what will defy logic.)

I'm not saying that the Swiss program would work, unmodified, in the US.  In fact, it might not work at all in the US.  But, we won't know until we try.  The one thing that is absolutely certain in this equation, is that continuing to do the same things that have done nothing but drive up the cost and profits of drug dealing for two decades, is a fools errand.

Oh, yes.  I almost forgot.  Although the hard drugs, like heroin, are indeed much more addictive than cigarettes, cigarettes kill many times more people than all of the so-called hard drugs combined.  In fact, most drug related deaths are not from an overdose, but rather from tainted drugs.  If legitimization did nothing else, it would significantly reduce drug related deaths.

Links to the source of all of the facts that I quoted here can be found in the article "The War on Drugs - Solution or Problem?"

Disclaimer:  The above linked three-part article contains links to much factual data.  If you happen to be a bushbot, you should avoid reading the above linked article.  After all, bushbots don't want to be confused by the facts.

 

[maestro]

FOXNEWS: FBI Uncovers Al-Qaeda Drugs-for-Arms Plot

THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!...........Afghanistan is 'OUT of the Drug-Poppy-Heroin BUSINESS'!........We Won the War and Occupy!

'Arms'?.......They have NOTHING to 'deal' with!

The Media Lies Again!

THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!

'Just say NO'.

The Islamic U.N. would NEVER allow this!

/Sarcasm

[MD_Willington_1976]

Actually the way the foul mouthed ex-whore described the hooking by the police station is somewhat misleading, there is no law against recieving money for sexual services in BC, there are solicitation laws however.

Funny that you mention that Dateline report, I used to live in Campbell River BC. http://visit-vancouverisland.com/campbellr.html

I did not know the girl who went missing but I am familiar with the goings on with the heroin problem in Campbell River. The dealers all lived on 7th ave, they got most of them deported back to Vietnam but rest assured they will return under a new name.

---

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I have witnessed how ruthless the dealers can be, a guy I know (his name is Glen) was hacked with a machette while defending a girl from being decapitated at the pool-hall by a stoned vietnamese dealer, he got the dealer back as good as he got him though.

Glen was able to parry the blow of the machette with a pool cue, which saved his arm from amputation but he still has a wicked scar, as he was bleeding he responded by beating the crap out of the dealer, who was "too high to die", with the fat end of the pool cue then finished up by stabbing the cue into the guy. Both went to the hospital in ambulances but Glen faired much better.

Some things that are misleading about the dateline report is that there is no ferry from Campbell River to Vancouver,although there is a ferry from campbell river to quadra island, the ferries run from Vancouver to Nanaimo or Victoria on Vancouver Island, there is also the fact that there is over 750,000 people living on the Island and it is not just some sleepy village...

Vancouver Island Statistics, Length : 282 miles, Width : 62 miles, Area : 12,408 sq. miles, Thats 60 people per square mile on the Island, while Washington State (where I live) has 88 people per square mile at 66,544 square miles, Vancouver Island has 20% the area of Washington State. At the same time BC has an area of 357,216 Square miles with a population density of 11 people per square mile.

[jrg]

Man, those brain-damaged, warped Christians beat all I have ever seen. I mean, they knew they would be thrown to the lions, executed for their faith, but continued in spite. Religion sure makes you so stupid that you will allow yourself to be killed for one fix!

Yep! It's those kind of Christians that give religion a bad name. Narrow minded, one sided, believe the way I do or burn in hell, kind of people that are going to be very surprised in the afterlife.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

This couldn't be true. The muslims claim that they're as pure as the driven snow and would never poison their pure and beautiful bodies with drugs, which are the scourge of the west. < /sarcasm >

[Cindy]

LINKS OF INTEREST:

FOX NEWS.com (AP): "DRUGS FOR ARMS, AL-QAEDA PLOT UNCOVERED" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "...It is the second such plot U.S. officials said they uncovered in recent weeks. In September, four men were arrested in Hong Kong on charges of attempting to sell heroin and hashish to finance the purchase of Stinger missiles for the Al Qaeda terror network.In the Colombia case, dubbed "Operation White Terror," undercover agents secretly videotaped meetings in London, the Virgin Islands and Panama City at which the defendants allegedly discussed exchanging drugs for weapons that would be sent to the Colombian United Self Defense Forces, known as the AUC...") (ARTICLE NOTE: The suspects are identified as Uwe Jensen, age 66, Carlos Ali Romero Varela, age 43, Carlos Lopez, and a subject known as "Commandant Emilio." ARTICLE NOTE 2: Three of the suspects in the Hong Kong case are identified as Syed Mustajab Shah, from Pakistan Muhammed Abid Afridi, from Pakistanboth of Pakistan, and Ilyas Ali, a naturalized U.S. citizen originally from India.)(110602)

YAHOO! News - Columbia- UNITED SELF-DEFENSE FORCES OF COLUMBIA (AUC)

ATLANTA FBI.gov - Press Release: "TOP TEN FUGITIVE JAMES SPENCER SPRINGETTE ARRESTED" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Theodore Jackson, Special Agent in Charge of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Atlanta Division, and Robert M. Gattison, Special Agent in Charge, U.S. Customs Service, Atlanta, Georgia, announce today the arrest of Top Ten Fugitive, James Spencer Springette. Springette was placed on the FBI's Top Ten list on April 25, 2002, and U.S. Customs Most Wanted list in September of 2001. The arrest occurred on Tuesday, November 5, 2002, at approximately 1:00 p.m., EST by Venezuelan authorities near the city of Caracas. The arrest was made on the basis of information provided by Georgia authorities to include the FBI, U.S. Customs Service, DEA, and Richmond County Sheriff's Office. Also, continued investigation by the FBI's Legal Attaché (LEGAT) in Caracas, U.S. Customs Attache, DEA Country Officer, and the Venezuelan authorities resulted in Springette's arrest yesterday.") (110602)

DEA.gov - Congressional Testimony: "Statement of Asa Hutchinson, Administrator, Drug Enforcement Administration, Before the Senate Judiciary Committee, Subcommittee on Technology, Terrorism, and Government Information" (TESTIMONY SNIPPET: As the tragic events that occurred on September 11, 2001 so shockingly demonstrated, terrorist organizations are a threat to the national security of the United States. One of DEA'S priorities is to target the powerful international drug trafficking organizations. Some of these groups have never hesitated to use violence and terror to advance their interests, all to the detriment of law-abiding citizens. While DEA does not specifically target terrorists, we will target and track down drug traffickers and drug trafficking organizations involved in terrorist acts...") (March 13, 2002)

DEA.gov: "PRESS RELEASES"

THE ANTIdrug.com: "DRUGS and TERROR"

U.S. TREASURY: "EXECUTIVE ORDER 13224 - BLOCKING PROPERTY AND PROHIBITING TRANSACTIONS WITH PERSONS WHO COMMIT, THREATEN TO COMMIT, OR SUPPORT TERRORISM "

[SSN558]

Dear Libertarians. Legalizing drugs would not undo the harm this causes. The drugs are raw opium from Afganistan. I don't care if a few junkies hot shot themselves, but I do not want to see ten cents a gram heroin in my hood.