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Bush says does not support independence for Taiwan -(Bush Shafts Taiwan, mine)
Reuters ^ | 10-26-02

Posted on 10/26/2002 12:37:58 AM PDT by tallhappy

CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - U.S. President George W. Bush said on Friday the United States would use its influence to ensure China and Taiwan settle their differences peacefully and promised to make it clear to Taipei that Washington does not support independence.

In a news conference with Chinese President Jiang Zemin, Bush said the United States stood by the "one China" policy, which acknowledges that Chinese on both sides of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is only one China and that Taiwan is part of China.

"The 'one China' policy means that the issue ought to be resolved peacefully," Bush said.

"We've got influence with some in the region. We intend to make sure that the issue is resolved peacefully, and that includes making it clear that we do not support independence," Bush added.

Taiwan's president, Chen Shui-bian, has voiced support for a referendum on formal independence from China.

The move outraged Beijing, which views the island as a renegade province and a linchpin in Sino-U.S. relations.

Beijing had hoped Bush would repeat a pledge not to back independence for Taiwan, which China says must eventually be reunified with the mainland, by force if necessary.

Nationalists headed by Chiang Kai-shek fled to Taiwan in 1949 after losing a civil war to Mao Zedong's communists. Washington shifted diplomatic recognition to Beijing in 1979.

But the United States has offered Taiwan the biggest arms package in a decade and Bush has pledged to do "whatever it takes" to help the democratically governed island protect itself.

Bush did not repeat that pledge at Friday's news conference.

But during a visit to China earlier this year, he said, "When my country makes an agreement, we stick with it, and there is (something) called the Taiwan Relations Act and I honour that act, which says we will help Taiwan defend herself if provoked."

China says it is seriously concerned about the U.S. warming to Taiwan under Bush and has called on Washington to halt military contacts and arms sales to the island.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: bush; china; taiwan
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To: tallhappy
What "Bush Doctrine?" Why do you think he is "shafting" Taiwan? How does this statement signify a shift in US policy. We have never called for an independent Taiwan. The phrasing used used in policy documents has always fudged the issue.

Are you saying Bush has specifically stated at some time in the past that he supports a Taiwanese fight for independence? If he has, I have never heard it. Please provide a source.

It would not be in the security interests of the United States to blatantly inject ourselves into the political nuts and bolts of the resolution of that dispute, which is what a declaration of independence for Taiwan by us would do. We have pledged to help Taiwan should the Chinese attack. That's as far as our committment should go.

101 posted on 10/26/2002 8:14:41 AM PDT by beckett
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To: TN4Liberty
The Taiwanese do not want self determination and liberty separate from China. They see themselves as a Chinese government in exile. I don't believe they have ever advocated a separate state. I haven't studied this

That's obvious (sorry cheap shot).

Your comments are decades out of date. They do hark back to the time when Taiwan was still under Marshall law after being taken over by China after WWII (Taiwan was part of Japan from 1895 til the end of WWII).

It was illegal for people of Taiwan to say anything other than what you express and those who did were imprisoned, exiled or killed.

There was no representative democracy at the time nor free press either.

In the last 10 years or so Taiwan has become fully free with multiparty democracy.

The vast majority favor either outright independence -- ie changing the name of the nation from Republic of China to Republic of Taiwan or maintaining the status quo which is continued independence from China as the Republic of China.

As far as seeing themseves as a government in exile, that became rather silly after 10 years of existence of Red China, but continued on as an empty policy while Chiang Kai-shek and his son Chiang Ching-kuo were alive.

A few years after the younger Chiang died in 1988, the constitution was changed to correct the anachronistic position -- no more claim to be the legitimite government of China etc...

102 posted on 10/26/2002 8:14:48 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: tallhappy
No independence for Taiwan who has enjoyed freedom for decades, yet an independent state of Palestine, which has never existed, for a bunch of savage terrorists?

Tancredo for President 2004!

103 posted on 10/26/2002 8:15:26 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: sit-rep
Your outrage was impressive in it's phoniness.
104 posted on 10/26/2002 8:17:25 AM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: BillCompton
It would likely precipitate a war with a nuclear power. Brilliant. Do you realize that Taiwan itself has not declared its independance from China? "Smart people" hopefully do a little more homework before they make decisions.

Was it the smart people that also made Communist China a nuclear power in the first place?

105 posted on 10/26/2002 8:17:33 AM PDT by PuNcH
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To: steveegg
Let's take a deep breath here. My read on this is that until Taiwan wants to be reunited with China, we won't let it happen.

So therefore Bush would make a statement directly opposite of this?

Quite a complex strategy.

106 posted on 10/26/2002 8:20:23 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: tallhappy
No. Inaccurate. One China policy was never that we believe there is one China or do not support independence. It was only that we acknowledged that was the Chinese position.

You don't know what you are talking about. I suggest you study the issue before declaring that Bush is "shaft[ing]" Taiwan.

107 posted on 10/26/2002 8:21:18 AM PDT by beckett
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To: demlosers
President Bush stated weeks ago that we do not need the Un's support for Iraq.

Now you say what Bush said then is not true and he needs China's permission to go in to Iraq.

For one thing, I supported and cheered the strength and fortitude of President when he made his UN speech and statements associated with it.

Now you say he was not telling the truth.

And, China is not going to support us on Iraq.

108 posted on 10/26/2002 8:24:13 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: Mamzelle
BTW--what kind of help is Taiwan offering the US in our struggle with the Islamists?

Taiwan's President offered any and all help after 911.

The USA chooses not to use Taiwan's air bases or ports, but could.

If the US did use one of Taiwan's ports or bases (as we did for decades before 1979) the Chinese communists would get mad at us.

109 posted on 10/26/2002 8:29:21 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: beckett
tallhappy is a bullsh*t artist.

Somehow, I don't think the leaders and people of Taiwan are paralyzed with angst right now. That affliction is for the con men around this joint.

110 posted on 10/26/2002 8:29:54 AM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: ArneFufkin
Your outrage was impressive in it's phoniness.

Two reasons why you say this that I can muster up.

1) Is the way I said what I said. Which is usaully the defense somefolks use when trying to discredit what it was I did say.

2) I have never been an advocate for Nafta or Gatt...never in the least. China policy in my opinion is driven by our very large corporate base now exporting out of China. The only other reason for your statement is your belief in my support for global trade.

If neither is true, please expand a bit on why you think my rant was phony...

SR

111 posted on 10/26/2002 8:30:32 AM PDT by sit-rep
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To: SunTzuWu
Hey! One fight at a time.

No no no.

This is not not fighting.

Bush did not have to say what he said.

This was an overt and planned comment meant to appease.

If the isue were simply not to fight, he could have avoided the subject (as was always done until Clinton in 1998).

Instead he overtly sided with the Chinese communists.

112 posted on 10/26/2002 8:32:59 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: sit-rep
It's all doomed, pal. FUBAR.

How long has American policy been the recognition of an "independent" Taiwan? What flurry of international events did the Bush statement unleash?

What emotional interest do you have in the issue to erupt so needlessly?

Idiocy and fraud.

113 posted on 10/26/2002 8:36:18 AM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: BillCompton
Who? Who supports recognition of Taiwan? This is just not true.

I will tell you and provide the published op-eds if you want.

But you will have to agree before to admit you really don't have any idea what you are talking about and are full of hot air.

Hao bu hao?

You have been spewing nothing but uninformed gloss or spin.

Your comments do reflect certain foggy headed thoughts and arguments out there, though.

I was hoping Bush know better than to believe you snake oilers.

So, what say you?

I provide the names and op-eds, you then bow down gracefully and admit you know nothing on this topic and stop spreading misinformation?

OK?

114 posted on 10/26/2002 8:43:31 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: CWRWinger
Thirty years of wrong policy doesn't make it right.

So why do China nuts wait until Bush is President to complain about the policy. This policy has not been debated by anyone with any substance for decades. TAiwan says there is only one China too; does that mean you want us to help them invade the mainland and wipe out Beijing? Get a grip. This one was lost back in '47, the year of my birth (but dont blame it on me).

115 posted on 10/26/2002 8:47:55 AM PDT by Dave S
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To: beckett
We have never called for an independent Taiwan.

We have also never stated we do not support it.

That is novel. Brand new for a POTUS to have ever said.

The phrasing used used in policy documents has always fudged the issue.

Yes. This time he used no fudge in explicitly siding with the Chinese communists.

This was as bad as what Clinton did.

Worse because George Bush should know better.

There is no explaining this away or getting around it. It is a major mistake on President Bush's part and will harm his presidency.

116 posted on 10/26/2002 8:49:26 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: beckett
Re 107.

Read and post the 1972 Shangahi communique where Taiwan is mentioned.

Then acknowledge your mistake and apologize to this forum for misleading them.

117 posted on 10/26/2002 8:52:06 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: tsomer
There are two kinds of power in China, business and government.
Though I am by no means an expert, I would question this. <snip>

This information comes from a book I read a few years ago. (I don't recall the title now.) There are definately free enterprise businessmen who operate more or less autonomously from the Chinese government. Something like 90% of the money is concentrated along the major cities near ports. Most of the rest of the country is poor and backwards. This area (the inland part) is controlled by Bejing firmly. It is my understanding that the businessmen who create most of the wealth operate with a wink and a nod and the government leaves them alone for the most part. But you definately have affluent people running things. It is impossible to do what China is doing under a Stalinist regime.
118 posted on 10/26/2002 8:52:19 AM PDT by BillCompton
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To: Always Right
Exactly. Bush is just saying this because of the Chinese visit - it doesn't change anything no how. Look what he gets around - "China says it is seriously concerned about the U.S. warming to Taiwan under Bush and has called on Washington to halt military contacts and arms sales to the island.......But the United States has offered Taiwan the biggest arms package in a decade and Bush has pledged to do "whatever it takes" to help the democratically governed island protect itself."

Think, guys, think. He needs the area peaceful right now, and this will help keep it that way. In the meantime he is arming Taiwan bigtime. That's not a sellout.

Actually, listening to his speeches (including his masterful Chinese speech to the students, that made me proud to be a Republican) I am convinced that he is in favor of one China one day - when the mainland becomes free and adopts TAIWAN'S system - not the other way around!

119 posted on 10/26/2002 8:54:36 AM PDT by I still care
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To: Dave S
Dave S, you are simply very uninformed which makes your comments not accurate.
120 posted on 10/26/2002 8:54:42 AM PDT by tallhappy
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