Beltway Sniper Shootings-FR Commentary-Saturday, Oct. 19, 2002

Fox News, CNN, Press Conferences | October 19, 2002 | Fox News, CNN, Press Conferences

[Peach]

To avoid multiple vanity threads regarding any news from press conferences, let's keep a live commentary thread going again today.

[mystery-ak]

Sept. 14th...thanks, I missed the exact date....Greta's segment, the first I've seen on the liquor store) was interesting....white box truck and all....the only thing is they can't match ballistics...but it does seem related.

[joey'smom]

Regarding the liquor store shooting -- here in San Diego, all, I mean ALL, the liquor stores are owned by Iraqis. Is that true on the East Coast?? What's struck me about the liquor store shooting is that the owner is a white guy. Never see that here.

[Congressman Billybob]

The killer may have rented different white vans for different groups of the killings. This would account for the witnesses not agreeing on the exact kind of "white truck." If he rented one at Penske, he could have rented a slightly different one, earlier at Total.

If the killer is trained in escape techniques, he might know that a white, closed truck is the most common vehicle. He might also know that after several shootings it was a good idea to change to a different make of white van. Also, I place no reliance on the "partial plate" description from the last shooting. Planning for escape would certainly involve putting a stolen plate on the van for the hit, and changing it as quickly as possible after leaving the scene.

Even garden variety bank robbers everywhere in the US know to either put a stolen plate on their get-away vehicle, or use a stolen vehicle complete with plates. Either way, they make a change as soon as they are clear of the scene.

Congressman Billybob

This column is based on the fine work by FReepers in a thread on FR. Click for "Ballistics and Bullsh*t"

Click for "Til Death Do Us Part."

Click for "to Restore Trust in America"

[AmericanInTokyo]

The last I heard, this is the United States of America and we have a right of free speech and to openly and freely speculate. Free Republic in fact has been the initial source of a lot of breaking things and has been the impetus in many political and non-political actions. Your "crap news" may be a subjective value judgement. If you don't like this thread, or Free Republic, hit your browser button to go to a different website. Bye! ;-)

[AmericanInTokyo]

If your disgust is directed at our national news media then I was out of line. But if you include our own FR theorizing and using our minds that God gave us to try to put the puzzle together, then I think you are out of line.

[mystery-ak]

I don't think Sac was referring to FR....he's a regular poster on this thread.

[CPL BAUM]

any estimate as to how far away the shooter would have been if he used your spot?

Best guess: 175 yards.

This guy's no former sniper. He's not even a former rifleman or deer hunter. He's a wannabe or a poorly trained terrorist. He has the instinct for selecting quality locations from which to shoot, but he lacks confidence in his shooting abilities - as demonstrated by the fact that he's exposing himself more than necessary in order to get an exceptionally close shot. The AR-15 has an effective range out to 500 yards. He could easily double his buffer from the target - but he's not.

In the past week, I've toggled back and forth between believing it was terrorists and believing it was Columbine-type-losers. There are strong indicators and arguments for each. For example: The shooter(s) have to know the area intimately - pointing to home grown loser(s). The location of the targets and variation of victims points strongly to terrorists. I get the powerfully uneasy feeling that what what we're dealing with is a home grown group of Johnny Jihads - who've returned home to wreak their havoc.

[md2576]

My Theory. More info has been posted below the thread! Has this Team Shadow Warriors more suspicious than I thought?

Shadow Warriors is a game where you get "God Mode"

More Coincidences!?!

[blam]

"I get the powerfully uneasy feeling that what what we're dealing with is a home grown group of Johnny Jihads"

That sounds reasonable and worrysome.

[Sacajaweau]

The reason I first came to FR was because I found it to be the most intelligent "sleuthing" site around. It appears to be one of the very few sites where people not only think "out of the box" but actually visit the sites (as in this case) and pass it on.

I'd say the site is "famous" for it's work.

I heitated to respond because I thought you may have mis-interpreted what I said and glad you got back.:-)

Sac

[nicmarlo]

. . . I get the powerfully uneasy feeling that what what we're dealing with is a home grown group of Johnny Jihads - who've returned home to wreak their havoc.

You may be right on here, CPL; I agree with your assessments. And if this scenario proves true, it's not at all surprising, given that American citizens islamofascists have been arrested in NY and Oregon, then, of course, there's Johnny Jihad, as you pointed out.

[AmericanInTokyo]

Gee, I'm real sorry about that.

(Said, stumbling sheepishly away with head downcast in embarrassment). ;-( Asbestos underwear duly donnned!

[shattered]

I couldn't tell for sure, but it looked like the guy who was shot was of some type of middle-eastern descent. Seems like that wouldn't be a target of the sniper if it is a foreign terrorist.

But maybe anyone working at a liquor store is fair game in their minds.

[nicmarlo]

Is he done??...No, counting Michael's there have been 12 hits. The number on the death card is 13 and M is the 13th letter of the alphabet. Michael's sure seems like a "code" thing more and more.

I also think there's something up with Michaels. Your post is first I read connecting M to number 13 (which is on death card), very interesting. What is your explanation about why they deviated from the Michaels' locations and hit the boy at a school? Simply so they could leave the death card?

[mystery-ak]

...he did look ME, but I don't think that had anything to do with it....he was first out the door, while the owner was locking the door....he was just the shooters first target...in MHO

[shattered]

Was the boy 13 years old?

[antivenom]

Look at the maps I have been providing all along...MOST are at TRIANGLE intersections...NOT the "classic" 4 corner intersection with 2 streets running perpedicular to 2 others... He does NOT depend on the highway or interstates for his exit...he is willing to travel through large sub divisions and gain access to smaller state highways miles away...this is a person who has the following..."LOTS OF TIME"...he is in NO RUSH...it is the hasty criminal that gets caught...

Some observations and speculations:
• He is using a rifle with a scope...allows him time and fulfills his G-d complex - that he is "watching you".
• He has avoided DC proper to avoid "street cameras"...he is technology savvy, probably has a GPS, may even have a Palm top, may even have a rental car with the computer map system in it.
• He fires ONE SHOT...to control tracing muzzle flash, therefore he has most likely thought out a few other pieces of important criteria...he is loading the rifle with gloves...there will be NO fingerprints on the casings. The two casings that were recovered seemed to be "planted"...one with a Tarot Card...and the other in a VAN...it is easy to surmise he is using a bolt action rifle...or has a casing catcher...12 scenes (they will soon announce that the Sept 14 was the work of the sniper too) and ONLY 2 casings...2 that were not the result of a naturally thrown. FACE it much easier to find a casing in a van then it is to find one at night out in the open...
• We have never had a report of the perp actually being seen...despite the reference to a composite drawing...we do not have anyone come forward and say they saw the shooter...that is why I still believe the use of the dogs are telling us...the sniper is shooting from natural cover...he walks a distance back to a waiting vehicle and leaves the scene NEVER being seen...he is using the "Visual Barriers" at every shooting scene to avoid detection and face it...he has used it successfully. IF he has done that this well...HE HAS NOT been seen in a vehicle EITHER.
• The sniper has PLANNED everything so well up to this point...why does anyone believe he is STUPID enough to drive into the shooting area to be seen? He is driving in a direction AWAY from the scene...he isn't gonna drive into the chaos area where people are milling about LOOKING for anything to report.
• This sniper has a GREAT place to play his game...he has three jurisdictions to "toy" with...and that's why I do not believe he will leave this area.
• I think I know why the shooting has stopped...it STOPPED after the announcement that "hunting season" has been suspended...The 30-day ban in Montgomery, Prince George's, Anne Arundel and Howard counties began Oct 15 on Tuesday...SO will we see a hiatus until Nov 15??? Will be interesting to watch.

I am beginning to think that thee SNIPER maybe a PETA person...he was showing HUMANKIND what it is like to be an animal doing something natural and mundane in it's natural habitat...SUDDENLY when the NO HUNTING was announced...HE STOPS???

HMMMMMMM a "LEFT WING NUT"????

[Sacajaweau]

I agree with the johnny jihad idea...and johnny looks pretty ordinary all cleaned up..in fact, I'd say "respectable young man" (capable of deception).

Nice cleaned up young men like johnny jihad get picked up equates to Timothy McVeigh and friends, Columbine kids,...and a "who knows what he really has in the back of his mind" scenario. Sure hope he gets captured alive!!

Sac

[Milwaukee_Guy]

Why is it taking so long to say what kind of cartridge case was found in the box truck near Dulles? How would public release of this information hurt the investigation?

Local news is reporting there will be a DC/Maryland press conference at 11:00 AM CDT this morning. No other details...

[mystery-ak]

I think the shooting of the 13yo was a message to Chief Moose who tried to re-assure the public that the children were safe.