Beltway Sniper Shootings-FR Commentary-Sunday, Oct. 13

Fox News, CNN, Press Conferences | October 13, 2002 | Fox News, CNN, Press Conferences

[Peach]

To avoid multiple vanity threads regarding any news from press conferences, let's keep a live commentary thread going again today. Please stop by the Prayer Thread to leave a prayer for people in the target area http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/767040/posts

[areafiftyone]

They just said it on Fox News about the Guardian Angels. They said they have gone down to Maryland and Virginia to pump gas for people so they dont' have to get out of their cars. Its not a bad idea but I hope the sniper doesn't decide to shoot people in their cars next.

[Miss Marple]

Or Guardian Angels.

[Jaidyn]

Anyone know if a small can fit in the back of the truck since it has a roll back door? Is it possible the white truck is actually irrelevent but LE is using it so they can concentrate on the real vehicles? Those trucks can be seen at any given moment at or near a gas station. I have grave doubts the killers would use the same vehicle since it is so noticeable now.

[Shooter 2.5]

The bullet matched so it's not a copycat.

[TC Rider]

Where are they hiding the gun?

That particular weapon is an H&K MP-5k, a 9mm. Similar weapons with folding stocks are available in .223, it takes about 3 seconds to snap on a scope.

I think everyone is being done a disservice with the "one lone white wacky gunman" theory or the "one lone white wacky gunman and his friend Earl who drives the truck" theory.

This could be a well financed, well thought out campaign to instill terror in our nations capital.

If that was their plan, they are succeeding.

I've heard supposedly bright people say, "If it was Al Queda, they would be taking credit". Why, so they would be easier to find and stop? The less people know about what is happening, the more terror. Isn't that what it's all about?

[Sacajaweau]

This sniper becomes "something" utility man, etc. only when we insert the unusual vehicle.

Inserting an unusual vehicle for a get away seems to act "against" anything the snipers are doing. It makes them visible not invisible.

A guy in green khackis, sweatshirt and backpack.

Sac

[Brad C.]

Here's a little more, even though it is a little of topic:

4.4 Firearms Training

Firearms training differs from country to country. In some countries, possession of firearms by the public is illegal, in other countries it is legal. In some countries of the World, especially the USA, firearms training is available to the general public. One should try to join a shooting club if possible and make regular visits to the firing range. There are many firearms courses available to the public in USA, ranging from one day to two weeks or more. These courses are good but expensive. Some of them are only meant for security personnel but generally they will teach anyone. It is also better to attend these courses in pairs or by yourself, no more. Do not make public announcements when going on such a course. Find one, book your place, go there, learn, come back home and keep it yourself. Whilst on the course, keep your opinions to yourself, do not argue or debate with anyone, do not preach about Islam and make Salah in secret. You are going there to train for Jihad, not call people to Islam.

Useful courses to learn are sniping, general shooting and other rifle courses. Handgun courses are useful but only after you have mastered rifles.

In other countries, e.g. some states of USA, South Africa, it is perfectly legal for members of the public to own certain types of firearms. If you live in such a country, obtain an assault rifle legally, preferably AK-47 or variations, learn how to use it properly and go and practice in the areas allowed for such training. If you cannot get someone to teach you, you can purchase books about shooting technique and practise shooting stationary targets at different distances, with a partner. You can also practise running a distance, e.g. 1km, then shooting targets from a distance. Again, there are many variations and unless you have an experienced, trained person to learn from, you will be able to do little more than perfect your shooting technique at different ranges.

Under NO circumstances should you play or experiment with firearms. NEVER EVER point a firearm at anyone for a joke, whether loaded or unloaded. Keep firearms unloaded and out of reach of children. If you feel that you will be unable to control a firearm or your temper, do not purchase one.

Respect the laws of the country you are in and avoid dealing in illegal firearms. One can learn to operate many arms legally, so there is no need to spend years in prison for dealing in small, illegal fireams. Learn the most you can according to your circumstances and leave the rest to when you actually go for Jihad.

4.5 IMPORTANT NOTE ON LIVE-AMMUNITION JIHAD FIREARMS TRAINING WITHIN THE UK

Recently we heard many reports circulating in the British media about certain Muslim personalities claiming the presence of Jihad training camps in the UK in which firearms training is given with live ammunition before sending the trainees for Jihad. We would like to inform both Muslim and non-Muslim readers of this article that there are NO such training camps within the UK. Rather, statements such as these are made by Muslim personalities and individuals propped up by Western Intelligence agencies in order to frighten the local population from Muslims. We would also like to inform Muslims in the UK that if anyone, Muslim or non-Muslims, approaches you offering training of this type in the UK, it is a trap, you should stay away from that person and warn other people against that person because he might be an undercover agent. British National Intelligence MI5 does employ 'practising' Muslims to live amongst Muslims as agent provocateurs and entice them into traps such as these. Generally, these agents are amongst the most popular and influential members of the community. The Muslims are fooled by them because they fail to check up their background (where they came from, their history etc.) One can obtain almost any type of military training in some countries of the World, legally, so there is no need to risk going to prison for years just for learning how to use a single firearm illegally.

4.6 Military Training

Although sometimes it is difficult to obtain comprehensive military training in one's home country, it is very easy to do plenty of background reading using freely-available books and CDs, before one actually goes abroad.

The US Army has produced a number of military field manuals on CD on all topics from light weapons, tanks and artillery to mines, military fieldcraft and combat medicine. The full set is available on CD for less than US$100 and many field manuals are also available on the Internet. One source of availability is

http://www.sgtquartermaster.net/CDROM.html

or by searching for the term 'US Military Field Manuals CD' or just 'US Military Field Manuals Online'. Even though the US Army Field Manuals contain information specific to US Weapons, they still contain a large amount of useful information applicable in all circumstances. It is useful to get a full set of CDs for your mosque or Islamic society that everyone can use.

[TC Rider]

Could be a deliveryman and people tend to dis-regard those in uniform.

How about a yuppy diaper service? Who'd want to search that van?

[Lion's Cub]

Anyone got a link to this "playbook"?

Actually, there are several. Making training videos and writing training manuals and books for the jihad seems to have developed into a cottage industry. These seem to be sold mostly in mosques or over the internet.

As far as I know (and I could be wrong) the al-Qaeda Training Manual is more or less considered the "mother of"... Here's a thread with the link to it. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/584998/posts

The following link discusses a training video and some of the things we can expect to see in the future. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/744321/posts?page=1#34

[TomGuy]

I posted this theory yesterday in another thread:

---

Consider this:

If these sniper deaths are al-qaeda/ME terrorist related,
Atta and his thugs moved in groups of 4 or 5.

If this is an activated cell, it may consist of 4 or 5 persons. What if.....

2 occupy a white van. No weapons, no sinister elements inside. They are, however, in contact with a second vehicle. White van gets to the proximity of the next sniper shooting. Immediately after the shooting, the white van speeds off, intent on being seen--because it contains no weapons, no residue, nothing to appear sinister. It is the decoy.

2nd vehicle is occupied by 2, probably 3. 1, the driver, is the front lookout. 3 is the backside lookout. 2 is the sniper. They plant themselves at their next geographic target. They coordinate with white van.

Both vehicles wait and watch until #2, the sniper, tags a victim. White van moves into place--to make the obvious/overt speed-away.

Sniper's two cohort lookouts indicate the all-clear. The shot rings out. The white van is ordered to "go". 2nd vehicle slinks off on a side road to get away, while APB's are looking for a white van seen speeding away from the scene.

[Skywalk]

Those same geniuses on TV and here on FR seem to forget that it's part of Al Qaeda's MO to not claim credit for a long time, IF EVER. Even then, they have an indirect way of doing it, probably to help their useful idiot leftist allies say garbage like "well, no one claimed responsibility and there's no proof it was AQ"

[woofer]

I think he targets people who are the best targets. People who happen to be standing out in the open. Parking lots and gas stations are good places to look for people just standing in one place.

Replace "best" with "easiest" and we'll agree. The perp(s) aren't what I'd call superior marksmen. All torso shots on a stationary target. At about 100 yds. With a .223 cal rifle. With that weapon, at that range, at that kind of target, my Mom (85) could hit every shot. It's the sniper's equivalant of the broad side of a red barn on a clear day. With no wind.

[TC Rider]

2 occupy a white van. No weapons, no sinister elements inside. They are, however, in contact with a second vehicle. White van gets to the proximity of the next sniper shooting. Immediately after the shooting, the white van speeds off, intent on being seen--because it contains no weapons, no residue, nothing to appear sinister. It is the decoy.

Don't need it. Since the media latched onto the 'white van' early on, just wait till a white van is driving through the area, find a target, take a shot and someone will report a white van driving away. (someone else posted this theory first)

[Sacajaweau]

TC: That's very good except I would use a backpack scenario. It gives him the ability to stash it if dogs are on him (the weapon is not traceable and not the most important thing to the sniper (his associates are the most important thing).

He still has a side weapon and possibly a few more tricks.

Hopefully, the cops would keep the dogs running so they don't lose the guy rather than everyone "concentrating" on the backpack.

Sac

[TC Rider]

The bullet matched so it's not a copycat.

I've heard so many conflicting reports about recovered bullets, I don't know what to believe. At various times I've heard, FMJ, Hollow Point, Frangible, mystery military bullets, etc.

How reliable is the matching to a specific weapon and other rounds when rounds are deformed, splintered, franged (?),etc.

[lizma]

Read an article this morning that said Maryland gun laws are coming into play in this recent election. Good.

No Bad.

KKT's bunch has been trying to make Erhlich look like a "gun nut" (their words, not mine) from the very beginning, and they will use this against him big time. If things go like they usually do around here, 3 days before the election they will run an ad saying these shootings are Erhlich's fault.

We have people here almost paralysed by fear. (I bet orders at the local grocery home delivery service have shot through the roof) These people (unless they're too afraid to leave their homes and vote) will jump at the chance to ban guns. They are running on emotions, no thinking allowed.

[evad]

Might want to read it before you thank me.

hehe..yeah..in the first paragraph I could see that this wasn't what I was looking for but thanks anyway.

"Jihad is not illegal acts of terror against innocent people. When tabloid journalism mistakenly informs the masses that Jihad is ‘to commit illegal acts of terror’.."

I am looking for the playbook that alleges to say that snipers, trucks, popping off civilians, single shots, etc is the Jihadist's tools of the trade.

[Merovingian]

he targets people who are the best targets

Ditto and if he's as smart as i think, he has the vehicle pointed in direction of his getaway with the engine running if close enough to his sniping spot..

[TC Rider]

That's very good except I would use a backpack scenario.

If the Tarot shooter was of student age, the backpack theory would work well. Most AR-15 variants will break down into upper lower sections pretty quickly that would easily fit in a backpack.

The backpack would be incongruous with the guy in a deliver uniform.

My point with the graphic was to illustrate that anything is possible and everyone should keep an open mind.

[Merovingian]

MSNBC now saying that overnight a man was arrested in Gaithersburg who drives a chevy astro van and had a rifle..When MOOSE was asked about it, he just said 'we have alot of police work ongoing...'