I THINK THE SNIPERS ARE AL QAEDA

Various Cable Networks ^ | 11 October 2002 | Myself

[LSUfan]

I'm watching this sniper coverage on the cable networks and everyone is so sure that this is a nut of some sort: a gun nut, a military nut, a serial killer, etc.

But we have evidence to indicate that there is more than one. Two nuts? The President of the Marine Scout Sniper Assoc was just on MSNBC and said that he is sure that the shooter isn't alone because he doubts that anyone could stalk, lay-up, take the shot, egress and just drive off in his minivan.

So now they have all the wonderful psychological profilers on...including some 300 lb private detective...and they are all talking about this like these guys are deranged or disturbed. They all refer to "spree" killers and "serial" killers.

Excuse me, but I'd like to see the list of serial killing TEAMS in American history! And I'd like to learn more about the spree killers who take 10 shots, get 10 kills, including one within 50 yards of a state trooper in plain sight and then vanish without a trace.

These guys have training, motivation, and resources and they are operating as a team. The fact that they shot with the cop right there tells me they were totally confident. I believe they plan these like operations, script them, rehearse them, conduct recons and then execute them LIKE OPERATIONS.

Who does that sound like to you?

Why isn't the media even thinking about the Islamic terrorism angle?

Also: this sniper was taking a big chance with daylight attacks in an urban environment, including one with a cop in plain sight. That (to me) implies that he has area security and avenues of egress and methods of egress covered. That's a lot easier to do in a daylight urban scenario if you have a team, as opposed to a lone gunman.

The fact that these attacks occurred just as the tanker was blown up in Yemen also makes me suspicious. Not to mention the 1 year anniversary of Enduring Freedom.

Just talked to a close friend who is with a DC think tank and is also a retired Col. of Marines. He is tuned in to law enforcement in the DC area as well as he is also a director of a company that sells computer equipment designed for tactical and security use. He has personal and professional contacts with law enforcement in the DC area. Also, his wife was two blocks away from one of the shootings when it happened, and in fact when he heard that a woman in her 30s had been killed in that particular spot while vacuuming her vehicle, he was extremely worried, because that fit her description. He couldn't reach her by phone for a good 15 minutes.

In general: it should be remembered that the month of October was the month in which Sheikh Omar Abdel al-Rahman, OBL's favorite mullah, and a top OBL lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahiri, were convicted in connection with the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Also, October was the month in which we started our assault on the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

These aren't some bad militia boys who got into some bad moonshine...these guys aren't shooting up the countryside. They're likely conducting recon, setting up their shots and bugging out to live to do it again. My friend tells me that terrorism is definitely on everyone's lips and minds and that the Feds have involved in this out the ying yang from the get go...BATF, FBI...even Secret Service because of the proximity to DC.

My buddy points out that Al Qaeda said specifically that it would target schools, so this might be the start of something.

GET THIS:

Two of the shots were HEAD SHOTS at a moving target at 150 meters. While a tourso shot at 150 meters is not a terribly hard shot for someone with training, a HEAD SHOT at 150 meters on a moving target would be a virtually impossible shot for a nut with no training. Next time you go to the gun show, take a look at the guy to your left and the guy to your right. Chances are, unless they grew up hunting or were in the military, you'd be pretty safe if they took a shot at you at 150yds while you were moving. Hint: Marines qualify out to the 500 yard line with the M16A2. That is what training will do. I qualified expert and am still an avid shooter today. I shoot a heavy barrel AR15A2 in 5.56mm and a National Match M1A in 7.62 NATO. I am NOT at all confident that I could get a head shot on a moving target at 150 meters. In fact...I would not even try. I would shoot center of mass. What all this indicates is a very highly trained shooter with good gear and most likely a spotter.

And GET THIS as well:

My buddy tells me that the FBI al Qaeda profilers have been predicting some sort of random attack as a contrast to 9-11. Something that sends the message: "no one anywhere is safe from us." al Qaeda has specifically said that they have the right to kill hundreds of thousands of "American children." This fits in with the critique of the al Qaeda training video that came out not long ago.

Here is another coincidence (?): In his Oct 4th column, Bill Gertz of the Washington Times said: "U.S. intelligence agencies received reports this week indicating Islamic terrorists have targeted American schools for attack, intelligence officials said. The reports indicate that the targeting includes plans to attack all levels of educational institutions in the United States, ranging from elementary schools to colleges and universities, said officials familiar with the reports." One of the victims was a 13 year old schoolboy.

Now REALLY GET THIS:

In the public release, law enforecemnt has not mentioned any race or ethnicity of the perps. But the unclassified bulletin that is being circulated by the Feds describes says that one of the local deputies got a description of two "Hispanics" but the feds think the guy just profiled them as Hispanics from law enforcement experience and that the two could easily be Middle Eastern. My buddy did not know if the deputy saw the perps himself or took a description from witnesses. The original vehicle was described as a white delivery van and today the suspect vehicle was a white Chevy Astro Van (but if these guys are pros like everyone thinks, neither vehicle will be showing up again).

A few more interesting insights from my friend:

The killer (or killers) must have felt secure in his surroundings. Most of the killings happened on or near busy main avenues during rush hour.

To say nothing of the fact that the region is crawling with law enforcement of every kind, being so close to the nation's capital.

Obviously it's someone who has murdered before or has been trained and conditioned to kill people. My buddy doubts many first-time killers, to say nothing of social outcasts or sickos, would have the nerve to kill with a single shot, then drive to another location within a half-hour, then kill again with another single shot.

Notably, all the areas of the killings are highly integrated racially. Had the killings been two miles west or south, they would have been in practically all-white or all-black neighborhoods, respectively, so a non-white/non-black killer (i.e., Middle Eastern) would not have been noticed in the areas in question.

Finally, the coincidental timing of these two incidents is another reason to suspect al Qaeda terrorism. Blow up a ship at the same time they're plinking away at innocent civilians...

If they haven't already done so, the cops and Feds need to bring in some guys from the Scout-Sniper School in Quantico to analyze this thing. Most law enforcement snipers don't think like the guys who did these horrible acts. And street cops certainly do not. The best way to get a sniper is with another sniper. The Marine snipers are the best in the world.

[ninenot]

No matter where they came from, the end result is terror. That's the definition of a terrorist.

As to AQ: only one little thing keeps me from total conviction--that's the Tarot card. Possible that the card was a deliberate mis-leading piece of 'evidence,' or that it was placed by a prankster.

But AQ types just don't seem to be Tarot players....

[Godebert]

"Zaitzev was real, Koenig is Hollywood fiction."

The name Koenig comes from Soviet WWII era documents, which were likely propaganda as there were no records of a German major named Koenig.

[aristeides]

The anthrax came from Ft. Detrick Md. and was not an Al Qaeda operation.

I take it you have not been following the anthrax threads here on FR.

[DBtoo]

I think one of the male victims looked Indian.

[BunnySlippers]

You make THAT presumption because historically this has been what we've faced here. But as the mutual funds commercials will tell you, historical results are not predictors of future performance.

I agree with post 144. At this point there is NOTHING to indicate this is a terrorist plot. You're average everyday punk kills more people annually than 9/11. Sad but true.

If this shooter does anything to suggest that he is anything but a common criminal I will consider it ... otherwise it's a fringe theory.

[ninenot]

I agree completely that if this starts in Chicago, Atlanta, Denver, or any other metro area it will be AQ.

As to 'claiming:' no one EVER claimed TWA800. Despite the fact that ME's were involved in OKC, no one ever claimed that one, either. And the 9/11 was not claimed as you state...

[section9]

Zaitzev was real, Koenig is Hollywood fiction.

No, Koenig was a real individual. He was head of the German sniper school. He was a full colonel. He was sent out when Sixth Army Command asked OKW for a sniper to go after Vassily Zaitsev, a Russian enlisted man who was making a name for himself in the streets of Stalingrad.

When Koenig arrived, both armies knew that a duel was on. It was one of those great mano a mano battles that one saw very little of in the Second World War. Koenig's misfortune was that he made more mistakes than Zeitsev.

Enemy at the Gates was fictionalized to make Koenig more murderous than he actually was. Koenig, for instance, murders a young Russian boy when he finds that the boy has been passing information to Zaitsev. I don't recall any event like this ever happening.

Koenig was a professional soldier and an aristocrat. He took pride in his work, which is why he was head of the Sniper School. I seriously doubt that he was the kind of individual who would murder a young boy.

Zaitsev was heroic enough. There is no reason to enhance his heroism by running down the character of his opponent, who was killed by Zaitsev in the end, anyway.

[Woahhs]

Everything about this guy tells me he is NOT part of our society. As you said, LEO doesn't bother him. He kills without preference (except gas stations and Michael's stores apparently). While he's obviously not a great shot he's at least proficient, and seems to have reacted to the questioning of his ability to make head shots. I don't think this is a "sniper" per se, but I'm definately leaning toward "soldier."

[EverOnward]

It's as if the shooter is trying to cover all ethnicities, ages and both sexes.

There is one prominent race in Sniperville the terrorist(s) has not shot at . . .

[DBtoo]

That is a very good idea!! They certainly have the technology to do that, no sweat.

[glock rocks]

good Lord, Bob.

i have no idea what i was thinking when i responded to you.

i swear, the doorbell rang, the dogs barked, i hit "Post"

then Pete-R-Bilt handed me a beer... my response to you makes no sense. what was i thinking? dunno. sorry. brain fart. i honestly don't know what happened. :o)

[aristeides]

This person / people are not snipers . They are shooters.

Please explain. What's the difference?

[Lokibob]

LOL, it happens. Not a problem.

[Wolfstar]

Actually, the Oregon al-Queda wannabes were spotted A YEAR AGO shooting in the quarry, and dressed in their Muslim garb. A local law enforcement officer spotted them, which led to the Feds putting them under observation. They were only arrested recently, after the Fed prosecutors got all their ducks in a row to charge them.

[Chemnitz]

The only thing I know about sniping is what I read about White Feather in Viet Nam (two great books). At first it was hard to tell, but now it definitely looks like a military operation. Most nut killers self-destruct fairly soon. They murder a bunch and kill themselves. Or they murder a bunch and get killed. The ability to take a shot and move on shows real discipline. I would be very surprised to hear that it is something other than a terrorist sniper team.

The power of a sniper is quite impressive. A sniper team in war has the ability to change the direction of a battle. How much more effective are they in a city where people are not at war?

[ninenot]

Agree with all your points except the nuke. Possible, but REAL small percentage. They are doing FAR too well with the M-16/AR-15.

Feds are in this up to their eyebrows. The Secret Service!!! "Just happened to be in the neighborhood, thought we'd help out..." I have WAY too many children to buy that line. Heard it/variants a millllllion times.

[aristeides]

but to say "I am God" would be blasphemous coming from a "devout" muslim.

The hijackers drank alcohol, went to strip joints, and ate takeout Chinese food (laced with pork.) It was considered permissible in the cause of jihad.

[DBtoo]

I haven't seen them here. However, I had been following that case from the beginning. I don't think that one was related to the terrorists, as convenient as it would be. I'm convinced that case WAS a nut job. Sort of like the case of the tylenol laced with cyanide a few years ago, although the motive was different. That guy was a nut (with a motive).

[DBtoo]

I agree. It could be a nut, it could be terrorists, it could be black ops, it could be two horrid teenage boys....

[livius]

I think, a couple of months ago, I referred to somebody else's info on this. It may have been Grampa Dave, who seems to keep up on these things. Al Fuqra appears to be active in NY, California, and a couple of places in the South.

From what I have read, they have a big training camp in a place called Red House, VA. I can't believe the Feds aren't looking into this, though, unless they're so PC that they've become delusional...