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Republicans, All Dressed up, But Nothing More Than Empty Suits
Vanity ^ | 10/09/02 | B. A. Conservative

Posted on 10/09/2002 8:58:50 AM PDT by B. A. Conservative

The election is now only a month away. FreeRepublic blindly backs Republicans regardless of issues or the Republican platform. FreeRepublic and the Republicans expect conservatives to prefer Republicans, if nothing else, because Republicans are the lesser of two socialists. The Emperor has no clothes, and faced with a socialist or a clone, Democratic voters will have no trouble picking the real thing. Conservatives willing to demand a real choice have other options.

The "boomers" will start reaching Social Security's retirement age in October 2008. By 2012, Social Security will become cash flow negative. There are no (none; zero; nada) assets in the so-called Social Security Trust Fund. The intruments in this so-called "trust fund", at best represent promises that Congress will raise taxes, cut benefits or both sufficiently to bring Social Security back into cash flow equilibrium. Political rhetoric and political reality differ. We have all heard the derivative debate regarding counter party risk and the risk of off balance sheet accounting typified by Enron. Social Security and its so-called "trust fund" encompasses the very worst features of both counter party risk and off balance sheet liabilities. Social Security makes Enron, Worldcom, and Global Crossing look good in the off balance sheet accounting department. And Social Security makes JPM and Long Term Capital Management look good in the counter party risk department. All of the financial catastrophes that have come to the United States in our 200 year history have been linear events. If we deal with the impending Social Security crisis within the next five years using the complete voluntary privatization of SS using the Chilean model of the Cato Foundation Plan, the crisis can be contained and kept linear. If we wait longer than five years to completely privatize SS or leave SS under government control, SS becomes a non-linear event with derivative implosion a certainty. It is not financially or politically possible to fund the unfunded liabilities of Social Security much beyond 2012. Politicians will address this problem by destroying the full faith and credit of the United States or by destroying our currency or both.

Speaking as a retired physician, it is not possible to fund the unfunded liabilities of Medicare. Medicare becomes cash flow negative in 2008, well before the "boomers" become eligible for Medicare beginning in 2011. The unfunded liabilities of these two programs are too large to fund through payroll taxes alone. And these liabilities are too large to fund through combinations of benefit cuts or income tax increases. All Americans are over taxed. Government has become a monolithic vulture crippling every American family. It must end now before American families are bled dry.

Every democracy in history has ended in bankruptcy. When the Democratic Party subverted the Constitution, and turned the United States into a serfdom based on socialism, it was necessary to democratize our republic. They succeeded in spades. In order to fund the unfundable, it will be necessary for the government of the United States, no matter whether controlled by Democrats or Republicans, to borrow to or beyond the limits of our credit, to print dollar bills in an unending inflationary spiral until the dollar is worthless and the United States and almost all of its citizens are bankrupt. And this reality will come to pass before there is a presidential election in 2016. All democracies in recorded history end in bankruptcy and so will ours. This is absolutely predictable and if we act now, preventable. We must restore our Constitutional Republic before it becomes too late shortly after the end of the current decade.

Democrats paved the road to socialism in 1936. That road goes off a cliff somewhere between 2012 and 2016. There is a fork in the road to the RIGHT dead ahead. This road offers the only realistic way to avoid the collapse and disintegration of the United States and the only chance to restore freedom and Constitutional law to the first country to realize these dreams or to the people from whom they have been stolen. If FreeRepublic will take the right fork, the Republicans will follow.

I do not want to mislead you into believing that enough Americans will follow the Republican lead. We have seen three clear elections where this is true. Ronald Reagan won two landslide elections running on a strong conservative Constitutional agenda. The Contract with America was a landslide success and gave Republicans control of Congress for the first time in most voters' voting lifetimes. But make no mistake, there are large numbers of Americans now addicted to socialism and serfdom. And this group of Americans is determined to impose slavery on the rest of us. Socialism spawns the unproductive and/or the weakly productive. It penalizes the productive. It is unrealistic to believe the myth that the people of this country are united. Study the map of the 2000election if you have any doubts. I am no longer willing to allow Democrats to impose their socialistic programs on me or my family. If we cannot defeat socialism with ballots, then let them have their own country and run it as they see fit. I intend to excercise my God-given rights and secede if there are sufficient like-minded souls. If not, I will simply leave and find another country that is willing to respect my freedom and the God-given rights of its citizens. And if the Democrats and other socialists choose to interfere with my right to secede or my right to leave peacefully, their blood will be on their own hands. I can speak for no other man, but I am going to live free or am willing to risk death in the attempt. Who among you will join me in demanding the return of our freedom? I am no longer willing to vote for a lesser tyranny. I invite all conservative freedom loving Americans to join me. The battle for freedom doesn't take campaign contributions nor does it require taking to the streets. All it requires is the quite determination to cast your votes only for candidates willing to act to restore the Constitutional rights that we have already lost.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bullshitt; constitution; freedom; socialism; waaaaaaaaa; whine
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To: Arioch7
Thanks for your very carefully considered reply. I am going to reproduce and address much of it.

"most people in the US are centrists. They are neither left nor right. I believe most would be Conservative..."

Most Americans are actually conservative and do think of themselves as centrists. Much of the propaganda war has been won in the past by the left because the media have had an exclusive franchise to frame and present the debate to the public. Over decades the media have been able to push the "center" farther and farther to the left when voters have not been presented clear choices. Republicans unable to present a coherent defense against the unbalanced media critics quit trying to frame the conservative side of the debate and moved left themselves.

"It upsets me that many people in the GOP are moderates but that is the way it is and the way it shall remain for a long time. While President BUsh has shown some spirit on certain issues, he has capitulated in others. The reasons for this are it is easier to try to change things when one is in office rather then when one is outside of the power structure."

That is a seductive myth. When office holders attempt to shift away from the platform they ran on, their own words and ideas become the weapons the media uses to assassinate them. Platforms, candidate speeches and elected official actions must be consistent or the media will completely disembowel elected officials.

"It comes down to Realpolitik, and the reason some are getting angry with you is that if we followed your vision, we would be a fringe party unable to do ANYTHING. As I have said, I work inside the GOP to bring it more to the right and if people like me succeed, it will bring the country farher to the right."

This is exactly what almost all conservatives and Republicans have done for the past 70 years. The problem is that we don't have another 70 years to swing the pendulum back. The United States government based on existing law has already incurred more obligations than are economically possible to pay. And Republicans are proposing to vote for legislation to make the problems worse instead of better. Democrats always do this; it is their source of power.

Yes, republicans won more presidential elections during that period than democrats. Democrats controlled both houses of Congress in thirty of thirty one elections until 1994. The real power of the US government lies with Congress. Presidential politics and the media have had the effect of increasing the apparent power of the President in recent years, but the money, the laws, rules and regulation are controlled by Congress. The President and his staff get the attention because they are the enforcers, but the real power is in writing the rules. I don't know with certainty that is possible to turn the country around, but I do know the consequences of not doing it. And only Republicans are capable of making the changes necessary in the time remaining where it is possbile to halt socialism before the unfunded liabilities push the United States off the financial cliff.

"I might add, the political capital is not present to demand the changes that you wish. We must do it by incrementalism. This is the same strategy that the left has used with the DNC and on the American public, and it works. The country would NEVER go for thier looney lefty ideas so they have waged war using incrementalism hoping that it will be too late once the Country wakes up and realizes what is happening."

In this I completely disagree. Your comments imply that you are not old enough to remember President Reagan, the only true conservative to occupy the Whitehouse in my lifetime, although most would consider Ike considerably more conservative than most recent Presidents. Reagan was substantially more conservative and more outspokenly conservative than Bush. Reagan won by electoral landslides and by large popular vote margins. Bush barely won the electoral college and lost the popular vote. Republicans won landslide Congressional victories in 1994, the one and only time that Republicans ever attempted to run on a rock solid conservative agenda. Their margin of victory was so large they have managed to retain control of both houses until the defection of Jeffords. But in every election since 1994 Republicans have moved farther left and have lost seats in every single election since 1994. And if they lose control in this election, it will because they moved left, and abandoned their conservative base. Republicans ignore their conservative base at their own peril. And if they win on a leftist agenda, the only result may be that the lurch to the left and the inevitable bankruptcy may be very slightly delayed. It cannot be postponed long and it cannot be avoided. And when I say the United States will be bankrupt, you might believe that you will escape most of the effects. On the contrary, it is the US dollar that will be destroyed. If your wealth is in dollars, much of it will only be worth the value of the paper it is printed on as fuel for lighting fires. Almost over night people will not exchange goods and services for dollars. Read some of the articles about Argentina today. You may not believe that what is happening in Argentina can happen here, but what you see in Argentina today is an excellent preview for what to expect in the US sometime between 2012 and 2015. Predictably things will be substantially worse than what is happening Argentina, simply because the world economy is dependent upon the United States. World wide depression can be expected when the US dollar becomes worthless.

"The reason we are practicing Realpolitik now is that the November elections are a HAIRSBREADTH apart and we must not lose."

The elections have become progressively closer because Bush and the Congressional Republicans believed the media propaganda barrage and felt they needed to move left to appeal to centrist voters. This is a perfect example of doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons. By moving away from the people who traditionally elect Republicans, they lose more votes from the right than they gain from the left. This has been happening in election after election throughout my lifetime. The media hoodwinks the Republicans. The Republicans fall for it. And the Republicans manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The Contract with America was the only winner the Republicans have ever had. And the Contract with Congress would be too. As Republicans moved farther from this position, they have lost seats in every election until their margin of control is at risk. Even if Republicans win without the Contract with Congress, it will not be because of the shift to the left, it will be because Americans know Republicans can deal more effectively with the War on Terror, Iraq and other matters of national security. The attack on America at the WTC raised concerns over national security to levels not seen since VietNam. Republicans will be very wrong and any victory short lived if they believe that moving left has become the secret to maintaining control of Congress. And delaying the Constitutional reforms that must be made raises the probability that the US will end in bankruptcy. There is no more time for incrementalism. We must seize the initiative an act.

"If we Conservatives all abandon the GOP, what will we gain?"

There is nothing that captures the undivided attention of a politician quicker than losing an election. Republicans have forgotten the horse they rode in on, the Contract with America and the conservative base that came out in droves voting them into the biggest upset election victory in the history of the United States. If FreeRepublic can capture the attention of Congressional Republicans and make them acknowledge and take a stand on the Contract with Congress, I think Republicans can bank on widening their grip on Congress and they will have a mandate to restore the Constitution. If Republican lose in 2002 because they continue to court the left and ignore their base, conservatives will capture the attention of Republican candidates in 2004, including the President, and we can make the Contract with Congress the center piece of the 2004 election exactly as the Contract with America was in 1994. If the Republicans win the 2004 election based on the Contract with Congress, there will be no significant opposition to enacting it and the task of restoring Constitutional law to the United States will have begun.

There will be time to fairly address the unfunded liabilities of SS and after SS is voluntarily privatized, Congress and the President will have established the political credibility to tackle Medicare, a much more difficult beast to address. That is what can be gained. The Contract with Congress is a choice between bankruptcy or the restoration of Constitutional law to the United States. Freedom can be saved. The battle may not be easy, but it can only be won by those willing to attempt it.

Socialism is a seductive and enticing mistress. Free lunches for all, all the time sounds good until you get the bill. The bills for Social Security and Medicare start coming due in 2012, and there aren't enough dollars in the whole world to pay them. Until somebody tells Americans we can't afford the bills and there really aren't any free lunches, how are they going to know? And if Republicans don't tell them, who will?

141 posted on 10/10/2002 1:31:08 PM PDT by B. A. Conservative
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To: B. A. Conservative
Where would you go, B.A.? I can't think of another country anywhere on the planet that I'd rather live in than the U.S. Perhaps some of the small, relatively isolated island nations might do, but every government is going to have its flaws. Also, although it might take another century or so, it seems to me the impulse toward a global government is well under way. It's certainly percolating away rather merrily in Europe these days. Taking the long view, I don't know if the U.S. will survive as a nation another hundred years or more. One could make an argument either way. But I won't be here then. So all I can do in my own time is never give up the fight to at least hold the line, if not reverse the worst of current trends. To me, a vote for ANYONE on the Left side of the political spectrum — no matter what political party he/she may affiliate with — is a betrayal of all that I hold dear. And I hold this country very dear, indeed.
142 posted on 10/10/2002 3:36:53 PM PDT by Wolfstar
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To: ThomasJefferson
Go vote for Hitler you moron. How the hell old are you? Why do they let children on this forum unsupervised?

My. What a thoughtful response. Do you write a regular column for Democratic Underground, or are you just a guest contributor.

Let me explain this one last time.

When you vote your feelings, your gut, your instincts, your morals, or your scruples, you have to realize that none of those things matter. What matters is, Who Wins.

If a democrat wins, we loose. Whether you feel good about yourself, whether you can look at yourself in the mirror, whether you think the Republican candidate is a RINO -- none of that matters if a democrat wins.

If you believe your candidate is the one for the job, have him run in a Republican primary and win. Then have him run against a democrat in the general, and win.

This isn't rocket science. It involves a lot of hard work, time, dedication, and money.

If you find that none of the people you claim to support ever win, perhaps you should ask yourself why this is so. Maybe you could have worked a little harder, contributed a little more money, or held a few more events for them.

Blaming the "two party machine" for your loss isn't going to make you a winner. It makes you look foolish, and diminishes your candidate. In politics, just as anywhere else, a man is known by the company he keeps. If you come across as an abrasive nut, your candidate suffers as well.

So quit complaining.

143 posted on 10/10/2002 4:43:26 PM PDT by reformed_democrat
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To: Deb
Why don't you pained constitutionalists ever think about the 40 years of Democrat control we recently shook off? Sabatoging the Republicans will doom the Constitution permanently.

Maybe "we" have and you of the Big Tent haven't listened. Every time the Republicans are presented with a serious conservative, he gets the cold shoulder as being too conservative. Some of "us" would agree with your position if it actually held some hope of actually doing anything to reverse the trend.

Have you Big Tent folks ever wondered why it is that a Democrat of 40 years ago looks EXACTLY like a Republican today? Why and how did the GOP slip? Was it NOT because of a willingness to compromise on core issues? How is more of the same going to reverse the trend? You can't sit there with a serious face and tell me that Trent Lott represents a movement forward? The first thing that model of conservatism did when he won the majority was broker a power sharing agreement with the Socialists.

It's the same old, same old, same old. All the Big Tent folks want our conservative vote, but then we're supposed to shut up while the government and it's grip on us grows apace. I'm not trying to sabotage anything; I'm trying to stand up for what I know is right.

There is a difference between principled compromise and compromising your principles.

144 posted on 10/10/2002 7:31:56 PM PDT by CaptBlack
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To: B. A. Conservative
So the main point of your post is that if the voters turn away from the GOP, then they will get the message and in effect make the pols switch tothe right.

I can see a certain logic in that but I still call most of the poulation centrists. I think if they knew better that they would consider themselves farther on the right thyen on the left but most are still greedy and will try to get as many benefits from "The System" as possible.

I would also add that people will bounce off the map on certain issues, and it is very difficult to get a majority of full blooded Conservatives.

I do remember Prersident Reagan although I think it was more a rebellion against the Left and the awful administration of President Carter.

Interesting prediction about what will happen in the future. I do not think it will happen quite so soon though. I am with you in the fact that Socialism always fails and usually does so with disastrous consequences. Lets hope that does not happen.

Anyway, I am going to save this thread as it is quite interesting. Thanks for the read.

145 posted on 10/10/2002 9:25:35 PM PDT by Arioch7
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To: CaptBlack
You have no principles to compromise. You also have no party and no candidates.

All you have is a huge, engorged gripe gland.

146 posted on 10/10/2002 10:21:51 PM PDT by Deb
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To: sixmil
"The time to steer your party is not election time. New parties are always spawned from existing parties,"

I have no intention of trying to establish a third party. This is about reforming the Republican party. As to the timing, the number of Americans willing and able to devote year-around efforts to politics is extraordinarily small. Most Americans can only devote very limited time to politics and that time is focused at elections. In truth, I suspect that is true for the politicians themselves, but not in the same fashion. Politicians almost never decline a chance to meet or impress voters, but the only time politicians really care what the electorate is thinking is in the period immediately prior to elections.

Even if my impressions are not true for others, they do reflect my own efforts. I can't spend hours a day trying to influence the electorate when most will not be thinking, reacting or reading my thoughts on how to reform the Republican party in order to restore Constitutional law. I am willing to devote more time and effort around elections, because that is when I think I can influence more voters. Change occurs at the margin first. I would like, but don't expect to change the hearts or minds of "moderate", "liberal", or even many "main-stream" Republicans determined to vote the straight party ticket. But I hope to convince the genuine conservative Republicans who know the Constitution must be restored and quickly or it will be impossible to prevent the impending financial collapse of US credit or US currency or both. Going back to the revolution, information appearing now says that only about a third of the colonialists were committed to the revolution and self-government. I don't think I need to get anywhere near a third of Republicans to change the direction of the party. If members of the religious right and/or any significant portion of genuine conservatives realize the urgency of the problem, the clamor for the Contract with Congress in the 2004 election may only come from 5-10% of traditionally Republican voters, but it may be a deafening roar in the ears of Republican candidates.

I hope members of FreeRepublic will remember this post in the period leading up to the campaign in 2004. We have less than five elections to turn this aircraft carrier around. Those Freepers who believe the future of the United States is unlimited in time and that their grandchildren will still be fighting Democrats while they are collecting their Social Security checks and wondering if their great-great grandchildren will keep making the Medicare payments on their payroll deductions, need to think ahead only a decade. We are going to save or lose the battle for freedom and save or lose the United States as a Constitutional republic in the next ten years. Its win soon or start making your plans on how to start over. 1789 is less than 15 years away, but we won't be rich colonists with oodles of real money; we will be a hugely divided montage of largely disillusioned unbelieving angry mobs who can't believe that our money won't buy anything. Retirement plan, working class, jobs, self-determination and a host of other concepts will take on completely new meanings. It never ceases to amaze me how much faith Americans of today seem to be putting in governments of all levels to accomplish or do things. By 2016, there will be zero faith in any government and most will have ceased functioning in virtually any capacity. When people don't get paid in something they can spend, save or trade, they cease "working" or showing up at their employers' place of business.

I don't have to change the minds of the lemmings, only the minds of the people willing to analyze the future for themselves and to think about the consequences of what they see. If there are 5-10% of Republicans who are genuine conservatives, and I can capture their attention long enough to get them to think through the next 15 years of the future, and then think about how to change the course we are on; I think we will have the proverbial snow ball's chance. Right now, the United States doesn't.

147 posted on 10/11/2002 5:58:30 AM PDT by B. A. Conservative
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To: Mulder
"However, a large number of good conservatives think there is a difference between the leadership of the two parties. They think that by winning the Senate, Bush and the GOP will take a hard turn to the right."

I thought Ike might make more efforts to retake Congress, but he was too old and his failing health prevented any efforts on his part. I thought this when Nixon was elected in 1968. I thought he would make the congressional elections the centerpiece of the 1972 elections. If Ronald Reagan had any failing, it was that he did not make an all out appeal to the American people to give him the Congressional mandate to finish the Reagan Revolution and to begin the Reagan Renaissance. After the 1994 Republican sweep, Newt was in firm control of the Republican party. Letting Bob Dole have the 1996 Republican Party Presidential nomination was the among the worst political mistakes in history. And when Newt caught his brain in his zipper and the next in line (I have forced his name out of my brain and hope no one reminds me of this catastrophe of moral failure) was guilty of the same transgression, the Republican party collapsed and lost any political direction that it had. These are only some of the reasons why your premise that Bush with sufficient margin will restore the Constitution is false. Bush has risen to the occassion as Commander in Chief. But Bush is not a true conservative. Bush is a child of politics and government. All of his forays into private business are tinged with problems. Bush I was pure government. And so is Bush II. He truly sees government as the solution to many of our problems and has no trouble embracing many of the socialistic schemes of Democrats. If Newt could magically undo the past and return to power, there would be a clash of titans over domestic policies.

It is pure myth that conservatives can run on a platform that embraces less socialism as a strategy that says some degree of socialism is ok as long as we limit it to what we can afford. The Media will absolutely crucify a Republican poltician or the Republican party that shows any significant deviation from the platform they ran on and the way they try to govern. And the Republican electorate will easily feel betrayed. Democrats have no problem with being lied to. Lying is a way of life for Democrats who are all corrupt including rank and file average Americans. There are far fewer depression era, WWII Democrats left where there is some semblance of character in the rank and file Democratic voter. And they are corrupt themselves, they just don't realize it or think of themselves in that fashion. Republicans on the other hand do not accept lying as a routine way of life the Media will manipulate Republican voters' emotions against the lie sufficiently that enough Republican's will forget they should actually be glad the Republicans are trying to pass something that is more conservative than they ran on. Truth and Integrity are important, especially to rank and file Republican voters. People have a right to know what is going to happen when they vote for a candidate and why. If it doesn't happen because of deceit, Republican candidates will not be forgiven because the Media won't let them apologize, justify or explain their actions. Democrats get away with this, precisely because Democrats are basically corrupt and the Media will massage any repurcussions away.

148 posted on 10/11/2002 6:31:07 AM PDT by B. A. Conservative
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To: Mulder
"The best way to "force the issue" is to give the Republicans the Senate."

I divided my reply because this statement deserves to be treated separately. Giving the Republicans the Senate will not force a single issue. The only change will be that Bush's judicial appointments will be approved. It will take decades before these appointments have a substantial effect on government. The United States is not going to live long enough for the Federal Judiciary to restore Constitutional law. We must have a legislative solution and it must come before 2012 and very likely no later than the 2008 election. I believe that we can ensure the survival of the United States as a Constitutional republic if we can force Republicans to make the Contract with Congress the center piece of the 2004. Anything less increases the risk of bankruptcy immensely.

The present Republican leaders, including Bush are not strong constitutional conservatives. They are first and foremost politicians, not statesmen or leaders. They are motivated to remain in office and get along more than they want to make changes. They believe they have to deal with the reality of RINO Republicans rather than dragging them to the conservative agenda or working to replace them with geniuine conservatives.

The changes that Republicans must make are not going to come from the top down. These changes are going to come first from FreeRepublic, widening to other grass roots groups and finally to Republican candidates faced with electoral loss before Republican candidates will begin the effort to restore the Constitution using the Contract with Congress as a blue print. Conservatives have to convince candidates that they will lose without the Conservative vote and once convinced the Republican candidates will have to convince the Republican leaders and they in turn must convince the Republican electorate.

149 posted on 10/11/2002 6:47:22 AM PDT by B. A. Conservative
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To: sheltonmac
"Keep pointing out the fallacy of GOP "conservatism." As long as people believe that blindly voting for the "R" behind a candidate's name is doing some good we will continue to get the kind of government we deserve. "Vote out the 'rats!™" only works when you included Republicrats."

You have nailed it exactly!

150 posted on 10/11/2002 6:49:02 AM PDT by B. A. Conservative
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To: hchutch
"You cannot turn a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier on a dime."

We are not on a nuclear-powered carrier; we are onboard the Titanic. And if we don't change course dramatically within the next four election cycles, this ship is going to sink into a sea of red ink.

Voting for Republicans committed to the status quo doesn't even rearrange the deck chairs on this ship. Mutiny is not quitting. And I am not jumping ship, I am suggesting that the Captain and crew need some direction from the passengers on this vessel before these incompentents bury us under a mountain of icey bad debt or drown us in a sea of worthless currency.

We have all been doing it your way for at least 70 years, and your way has failed every time it is tried. Republicans only win significant electoral victories when they get conservative voters to come to the polls. That has only happened three times in my lifetime and I have been voting since 1960. Take your time and think this through. Assume your worst case scenario and give Democrats even large majorities in both Houses of Congress. My worst case scenario would be a filibuster proof Democratic Senate. I cannot envision a filibuster proof Democratic Senate, let alone a veto proof Democratic Senate, in a single election under present conditions, but I will concede it to you. Bush will still be President and he holds the two most powerful trump cards in American politics, the veto and the bully pulpit. He uses the bully pulpit very well; he just doesn't use it enough. Same with the veto which he hasn't used at all. He hasn't even unsheathed the single most powerful tool devised by the Founders for preserving and protecting the Constitution. And I might add he rejected its use in a clear cut case where it should been used, CFR. If you have any faith at all in Bush as a conservative or as a man, and if you have any faith in the American people that the spirit of freedom and independence is still alive in the souls of our character, what are you worried about? Any harm the Democrats can do will simply serve to reignite and fan the flames of freedom's torch. And if freedom is dead in the United States, why would anyone in their right mind want to save the United States to preserve their own enslavement?

My message to you is simple. I don't want the United States to survive and function as a socialist state. I am not going to be a slave or serf so that politicians, Democrat or Republican, can use my money or mortgage my children's and my grandchildren's future so that they can buy their own re-elections. All of the social welfare programs are complete failures. They help no one. Turning impoverished people into welfare dependents regardless of their ages is not helping them. Turning working middle class Americans into wards of the state, regardless of age, is a crime against humanity. Taking the money of any man without his consent and giving it to another man is corrupt and unconstitutional. It is nothing more than state sanctioned plunder. I am not going to stand for it. And those who believe they can plunder a golden goose forever, will find that when the geese are tired of the game, they will fly away or spill the blood of pirates. A thinking goose will simply get out the way and let the pirates plunder each other anticipating that rather than plundering each other they will quickly kill each other. When the pirates have cooked their own geese, the real ganders will return to lead the flock. You have a lot to learn if you think I am a quitter.

151 posted on 10/11/2002 7:35:58 AM PDT by B. A. Conservative
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To: unixfox
Very foxy!
152 posted on 10/11/2002 7:36:46 AM PDT by B. A. Conservative
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To: B. A. Conservative
I'm not willing to give the Democrats a THING just to make a point.

You have faith in the people you trust, and you work like it all depends on you. Anything less is foolishness in the light of the present situation where America is pretty much half-and-half.

The question is, do we become a valuable PART of a TEAM to win things over, or do we QUIT? You are advocating a course that is little better than quitting. You say all the right words, but the action you advocate will only get us the worst possible results.

Good intentions and four dollars gets me the latest National Review and a 20-ounce Mountain Dew. The results are all that matter, and the RESULTS are what we MUST focus on. Your method will NOT get the results.
153 posted on 10/11/2002 7:57:02 AM PDT by hchutch
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To: rintense
Get a grip!
Ops4 God Bless America! We want a third party!!!!!
154 posted on 10/11/2002 8:09:22 AM PDT by OPS4
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To: Wolfstar; Jim Robinson; steve50; JohnGalt; fporretto; George Frm Br00klyn Park; tacticalogic; ...
"although it might take another century or so, it seems to me the impulse toward a global government is well under way."

History repeats itself, is simply a way of saying the things go in cycles. We are coming to the end of a cycle. Socialism is peaking and freedom is troughing. The United States and the US dollar are leading this cycle. Socialism is unsustainable. That is why all democracies, without exception, fail. Globalism will end with the end of socialism. The only thing that I don't believe to be predetermined by existing facts is whether Republicans can rise to the occassion and end socialism in the United States thereby saving our Constitutional Republic or whether the socialists are going to destroy the credit and the currency of the United States. The world is going to suffer in the sewer of socialism and go down in the same bankruptcy with the United States or we are going to have another Republican Revolution and a Reagan Renaissance. FreeRepublic is going to play a key role as a catalyst in these events. If FreeRepublic fails in its primary mission to restore Constitutional law to the United States because it succeeds in the short sighted goal of defeating Democrats by electing misguided Republicans, only a battle will have been lost.

The Contract with Congress is only Plan A. Plan B is still in reserve and could be implemented within the same timeframe horizon. And yes there is a Plan C, but it is too painful for me to think about and is still only on the drawing board. It is neither functional nor completely outlined.

"Where would you go?"

I am not going anywhere unless it becomes necessary to move my capital beyond the reach of the plunderers. And I am not going any farther than necessary to preserve family and personal safety when socialism begins to unravel and the victims of socialism become rioters and looters. I will be here until after the 2008 election is over or until the hand-writing is on the wall. Depending on the outcomes of the next few elections, we all may want to do a little shopping. I still believe the hallowed words of a Patriot echoeing down through time, "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

I am not naive enough to believe that the United States is the only place that liberty can exist. Nor do I believe that liberty is served by dying at the wrong place or the wrong time. When a crash of the United States is certain, better to get out of the way and come back to continue the fight for freedom on another day. When the enemies of freedom are crushed under the crash of their own making, it will be easier to convince the survivors that there is a better way to fight. The fight for freedom will never end. There will always be those who would enslave others. "From time to time the tree of Liberty must be refreshed with the blood of Patriots and that of tyrannts."

155 posted on 10/11/2002 8:16:39 AM PDT by B. A. Conservative
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To: Arioch7
"Interesting prediction about what will happen in the future. I do not think it will happen quite so soon though. I am with you in the fact that Socialism always fails and usually does so with disastrous consequences. Lets hope that does not happen.

I have given you a plan for hope by ending socialism. Hoping that the entrenched current socialism will not get worse and end in disaster is beyond hope. It is merely wishful thinking, and both irrational and delusional. The United States is well down the road to socialism and the path to hell is being resurfaced daily. The cliff is twelve trillion dollars high and growing. We get to the edge of the cliff in 2012. Our present momentum will carry us over the edge if we don't have a captain and crew committed to changing course in place no later than the 2008 election. These are not crystal ball predictions, these are accounting and political realities.

"Anyway, I am going to save this thread as it is quite interesting."

Please do, it maybe the only anchor that you are offered.

156 posted on 10/11/2002 8:29:34 AM PDT by B. A. Conservative
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To: Deb
You have no principles to compromise. You also have no party and no candidates.

"All you have is a huge, engorged gripe gland."
- 146 deb

AhhhHaaHaa ... Thank you deb, for a huge morning belly laugh.

Having seen you in a mumu, the "huge, engorged gland" part was hilarious, -- coupled with the fact that you are FR's most notorious old 'gripe'.
Really, -- I am in your debt. - Kudos.

157 posted on 10/11/2002 8:56:20 AM PDT by tpaine
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To: ThomasJefferson
You have proven my point.

It is really to bad that so many real conservative Republicans can't win because third party holier than thou types refuse to vote establishment.

There was a difference between Bush 1 and Clinton, and Third Party voters are to blame for Clintons win AND all the consequences.

The same will happen in Oregon in the governors race and happens every election cycle.

The Republican for Governor of Oregon is very Conservative, but because he will not platform on legalizing pot the LP will not support him. And because the LP and CP cannot put aside one or two differences Mannix will lose by 8% or so.

Leaving Oregon with a Socialist.

Thanks again.
158 posted on 10/11/2002 9:24:58 AM PDT by CyberCowboy777
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To: hchutch; Jim Robinson; steve50; JohnGalt; fporretto; George Frm Br00klyn Park; tacticalogic; ...
"You have faith in the people you trust.."

Half of all Americans are Democrats and by definition only have one oar in the water. And by that I have several different implications. Democrats are absolutely wrong about everything they believe. There is no truth in any of the Democratic agenda. It is the classic example of the old saw that the majority is almost always wrong, and on the rare occassion when they happen to be right, it's for the wrong reasons. Worse Demorats are not rowing with the only oar they have in the water; they are using it as a drag to stiffle the efforts of those rowing on the other side of the boat.

Republicans advocating socialism or those Republicans who are not opposing socialism are rowing, but backwards. When only 25% on one side of the boat are rowing, we are going no-where fast and we are going in circles. We have been doing this so long, our ship is trapped in a vortex being sucked down into the depths. I am offering you an anchor that can pull the ship to safety. There is only one port in this storm that offers safety or that has provided refuge in the past. Ronald Reagan guided our ship toward saftey twice and Newt proved that Reagan's path was the only path. You may not believe it yet or be willing to accept it, but the United States is very close to the point of no return. God forbid that I am wrong and we have already passed it. But if we keep steering the same course, we are going to miss the fork in the road or be unable to turn.

Your instincts are telling you that I could be right. And in your heart, you know we are on the wrong path. No one wants to admit to themselves how close we are to the edge. The thought of going over the edge is almost too painful to acknowledge. I really do understand your anxiety.

I am sorry that you cannot go back to prior election threads. I fought the Peroistas, the Buchanites, the Reformers and the Libertarians. I pleaded with conservatives to support Republicans no matter their stance. I have known my entire adult life that only the Republican Party can save the United States from the fate of all democracies. I believed that they would rise to the occassion no matter what. I have always believed in the people of the United States, even in a lot of Democrats. Most Democrats are not inherently bad, just misguided or delusional. Even the delusional sometimes have an awakening to reality or can be curtailed sufficiently that they don't drag the rest of humanity into their delusions.

To my chagrin, I was wrong. I am a recluse and don't easily make friends, in part because my views are not shared by many, and in part by choice. I preferred my own thoughts to the thoughts of others and enjoyed learning about the world in which we live for myself. There is so much to learn and discover that it was my entertainment away from work and when working, medicine was a jealous mistress leaving little time for anything else. I realize now that I neglected some important needs of my own family. After I retired, I had more time to consider others. It was when I realized how many of my friends and even how many of my own family were participating in the delusions of socialism that I began to take seriously the status of the problem and to look at the potential consequences.

Before you charge off jousting only at Democrats and rooting for any Republican, spend a little time thinking about past elections and where the Republicans, including Bush, seem to be taking us. Think about what I have said regarding the hope that Bush and the Republicans will morph into significant Constitutional conservatives after they are in power. Ask yourself if it is reasonable, let alone rational, that they really are more conservative and that they are just acting as socialists until they get enough power to unleash conservatism on all those socialists out there and there won't be anything the media or the socialists can do because Republicans have the power at the time. Those really are the assumptions you have to make if you think Republicans are going to undo socialism your way. I don't think the Alice approach has much chance. If I am even close to the truth about the timing, and I think the current recessionary trends could bring the cliff closer to the present, then we are or could already be in serious trouble. Based on the past 70 years of failure and the progressive loss of freedoms that we have already suffered, how long will it be before your plan starts to work. Tell me your time table so that I know what to expect. And tell me which generation of my heirs are going to be free at last?

And another thing, I am a retired physician. I can tell you with certainty that socialism is very much like cancer. If you delay diagnosis or treatment, cancer will advance and become incurable. And when you start treatment for cancer, the only acceptable goal is quick and complete eradication. Containment of the disease is used only for those whose cancers have progressed to the point of being incurable. We attempt to prolong their lives and make the life they have left more comfortable. How does your treatment regime fit into the grand scheme of treating the cancer of socialism?

Freepers, I am asking you all to consider my admonitions and my plans carefully. One man with a plan convinced a little over two hundred brave men to make a stand for freedom. Those brave men bought enough time for a few thousand other brave souls to defeat a vastly numerically superior force who were only serving a tyrannt. This is not the Alamo and we are not at the last desparate battle for freedom. At least I don't think so. Washington crossed the Delaware and attacked the tories in their beds. The socialists are winning the war of attrition. We too must arouse the Republicans from their beds and attack. If you are willing to join me in the battle, keep this thread alive until election 2004. If the Contract with Congress has not achieved victory in this election and if no one else has offered a better alternative, it may be our only canon when we are forced to refight the Battle of the Alamo in 2004.

159 posted on 10/11/2002 9:54:36 AM PDT by B. A. Conservative
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To: B. A. Conservative
I think your cancer analogy is the most appropriate. When you complain about Republicans, people say, "You can't stop an aircraft carrier on a dime. You have to slow it before it can be reversed." If doctors took that approach with cancer, the mortality rate would be about 100 percent. Now, I have no medical training, but isn't removing an entire malignant tumor the best way to get rid of it? It seems the current Republican treatment for cancer is to simply chip away at the tumor little by little over time--the problem is that the tumor is growing at a much faster rate than it is being removed. And that, of course, is assuming they are even attempting to remove it in the first place!
160 posted on 10/11/2002 10:26:05 AM PDT by sheltonmac
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