13 Year Old Boy Shot Outside Bowie, Md. Middle School, Not Known if Sniper Related

CNN Breaking news ^ | 07 OCT 02 | DCBryan1

[DCBryan1]

13 year old boy shot infront of school. Police scanners on!

[El Gato]

Accuracy for a tumbling projectile is crap.

Not if it only tumbles/yaws on impact, or more properly on penetration, of the target. Which is exactly what FMJ .223/5.56x45 (and "Russian" 7.62x39 and 5.45X39) do.

[Lord Marshal]

Your best defence against a sniper is to keep moving.

[El Gato]

. The brass would ID the rifle type.

The brass would tie down the caliber/load. Markings on the brass might help ID the rifle type, and could even be matched to a particular rifle.

[Bella]

Ashleigh Banfield on MSNBC on now interviewing ATF special agent, Mike Bouchard..

[Palladin]

You are right to keep your child home. They should close the schools for a few days. But then there would be more kids out in the open at the malls and in the parks. This is a terrible dilemma for parents.

Then think of the little guy who was shot today--after hours of surgery and transfusions, he is in critical condition. They had to remove his spleen, part of his stomach, and part of his pancreas. I'm praying for him and his family. If it wasn't for the clear coolheaded actions of his aunt, he might have bled to death in the schoolyard.

What kind of cruel callous individual could do this? I'll answer myself--the same kind that could fly a fuel-loaded airliner into a building filled with human beings.

[tortoise]

Not if it only tumbles/yaws on impact, or more properly on penetration, of the target.

Actually, ALL bullets tumble/yaw on impact. It isn't unique to any particular type of bullet. They are inherently unstable like that, hence the need to spin them.

[Sacajaweau]

Ahhh... That's what I want to know...if they can determine "THE EXACT WEAPON" from their evidence.

Physics was so long ago, I can hardly remember except we had a great time in the pub after class.

Thanks/Sac

[El Gato]

The diagrams for the two more common military versions of the 5.56 round might be more on point. (Each presumed to be fired from an appropriately rifled (twist rate) barrell.)

The first is the older type:

The second is the newer type

You can see that both have similar wounding potential, while the newer type, being heavier, retains it's velocity and accurracy out to longer ranges, and also provides somewhat better penetration of intervening materials.

[abner]

From VRWC Minion's post 1656:

Oct 9, 2002 First Cresent (New Moon)

If there is a pattern and it is the Star and Crescent, would a big attack be where the star should go on the 9th?

Ok, that is as tin-foil as I would like to get. Geographic profiling...

[Lord Marshal]

Let me answer your question with a broad brush. The bullets recovered were of a .224 caliber. Some of the cartridges that could fire that bullet would be: 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, 222 Remington, 223 Remington (5.56 Nato), 222 Remington Mag, 22 PPC, 5.6 x 50 Mag, 219 Wasp, 219 Zipper, 225 Winchester, 224 Weatherby Mag, 22-250 Remington (which is my personal favorite) and the ever popular 220 swift. Each one of these cartridges can be chambered in many different makes and models of firearms. Ruger, Remington, Winchester, Sako, Colt, ect. The possible combinations are endless.

Now regarding the question of a "breakdown" rifle.

The are cute, but seldom work. Usually the point of impact will change every time you break it down and reassemble it. I'm aware of 2 exceptions to this rule, one cost $5,000 a copy, the other is the AR-15, M-16 class of fire arms. The upper and lower receiver can be seperated and but back together with no impact on accuracy. The barrel does not seperate from the upper reciever, so you larger piece is still 22" to 28" long, and would not fit in a typical book bag.

[Sacajaweau]

I'm an Upstate native New Yorker but lived in VA for a short time and hope to retire there (soon).

The shooting that isn't connected was apparently a robbery with multiple shots...too distinct from tactical moves of our "sniper"(s).

You can bet there is a lot of cooperation between FBI and locals because of the proximity of the Offices of our Government. The FBI has the "minds" and "means" to probably solve this. Moose is a leadership dud....no clue, no plan!

Sac

[Ligeia]

You are right to keep your child home. They should close the schools for a few days.

Neighboring jurisdictions update:

FAIRFAX, Va. (AP) _ Some Virginia school systems joined schools in the Washington, D.C., area in restricting activities and keeping children inside Monday after a 13-year-old boy was shot and wounded outside a middle school in Bowie, Md.

The shooting raised fresh fears in the area where a sniper killed six people last week, although no link had been made to the sniper attacks.

Fairfax County school principals were directed to keep all children inside during the school day, said Kitty Porterfield, director of community relations.

Prince William County schools canceled all outdoor activities for Monday and Tuesday, including after-school sports. Superintendent Edward L. Kelly said Prince William police increased their presence around school buildings, and some off-duty security personnel were called in.

In Arlington County, all outdoor activities during the school day were moved indoors.

School officials in Loudoun County, about 60 miles from the Bowie shooting, urged principals to be especially alert. School spokesman Wayde B. Byard said many principals were canceling outside recess, especially at schools where playgrounds are visible from roads.

The Loudoun County Sheriff's office also put extra patrols in place around county schools during start-up and dismissal times and planned similar patrols Tuesday.

A Loudoun County school field trip to the National Building Museum in Washington was abruptly cut short by the Bowie shooting. Sanders Corner Elementary School principal William M. Prokopchak said second-graders from the Ashburn school were just miles from the museum when school officials heard of the shooting. Within moments, Prokopchak got an assistant principal traveling with the children on her cell phone and ordered the buses turned around.

"We decided that it was just prudent," Prokopchak told The Washington Post. "This was in suburban D.C. and one suburb is just like another. I'm a parent myself, and we're taking the actions I would want my children's schools to take."

In Spotsylvania County, where a woman was shot Friday apparently by the same sniper, the superintendent canceled all outside activities and after-school events.

Schools in Fredericksburg were on lockdown, meaning no one could enter or leave a school until the end of the school day. Stafford and Caroline counties canceled all outdoor activities for the day.

King George County also put its schools on lockdown. Classes that usually meet in trailers were held inside the four main school buildings, said Bill Wishard, director of elementary education. All doors at every school were locked, except for the front doors, which were monitored.

Meanwhile, the 43-woman shot in the back outside a Spotsylvania County shopping mall on Friday was improving. Inova Fairfax Hospital upgraded her condition Monday from serious to fair.

Richmond Times-Dispatch

===

There was something in Montgomery County Exec's Doug Duncan's comments last night that almost sounded like a dare to the killer(s) regarding the schools. As I listened to Duncan's press conference, I was filled with a sense of dread. I know Duncan didn't intend to issue a dare but it sounded like one nonetheless.

[El Gato]

It would take more than bone to break up a FMJ 223

That turns out not to be the case. They break themselves up, as they are desined to do. They yaw sideways (inside the target, not on the way) and break off at the channulure (sic?), the place where the bullet is crimped into the case. They also shed their jacket. All this due to hydrodynamic forces. All should be qualified with "usually".

[Sacajaweau]

Think more than one person involved...he's got someone playing lookout for him particularly if he's on foot like they're suggesting. He may have 1, maybe two spotters a short distance away talking to him and telling him which way to go after to avoid being intercepted.

They might quit for a week but that's not the point...The point is what is the end game and someone within the Capitol is the only logical end.

We can stop planes, we can stop bombs...can we stop a hit by a sniper directed at Bush or Cheney or Rice???

Sac

[Lord Marshal]

A .22 Long rifle with a 40 grain bullet flying at 1000 FPS produces 89 foot pounds of energy. The .223 Remingtion with a 55 grain bullet at 3300 FPS produces 1341 Foot Pounds of Energy. They are not even in the same class.

[tgslTakoma]

Reporter on WMAL said a patch of grass in that wooded area was matted. The police thought the shooter had lain down there to get off his shot.

If they're just now coming around to that line of thinking, we may be in a heap of trouble, crime-solving wise. I hope that the investigators have been studying all the parkland and park-like areas that conveniently overlook the areas where the victims were when shot. And, with all the greenspace we have kept in MoCo and elsewhere in MD, there's almost no place that one wouldn't be at risk of being targeted by a sniper.

[Palladin]

These are all good and prudent actions being taken by school officials. However, if I had grandchild in that area, I would advise my daughter to keep him/her home until this is resolved. It's just not worth the risk.

Just read these posts on what a .223 bullet does to internal organs. It is horrifying!

[Sacajaweau]

Matted grass...The point is: The guy is on foot...the vehicle somewhere nearby..ao maybe

WE'RE LOOKING FOR A STUDENT TYPE WITH A BACKPACK??

[Lord Marshal]

It would be a big backpack.

[El Gato]

Could it be folded and put in a backpack?? or are we talking a violin case??

At these ranges, it could be a handgun! There are several that are chambered for .223. If so, it would easily fit in a backpack. Particualarly if it easily breaks down, like a Thompson Contender, for example. They can be scoped too, just like a rifle.