FBI: Maryland shootings fit no category

World Net Daily ^ | 10/04/02 | By Paul Sperry

[Eva]

You're right, we would have wide spread vigilantism. As a matter of fact, I just told my husband that if I lived in the area, I would be carrying a gun under the seat of my car and taking target shooting lessons. I guess that should be in reverse order, but oh, well.

[Travis McGee]

Good point. It could have been a practice run. The main event may involve more rifles and a penned in mass of people.

[LikeLight]

Or the same amount of shooters and "high value" targets . . .

[supercat]

The skin of the average "box" truck can be penetrated easily by the Girand's 30-06 ammo. An average sidearm, however, most likely will do little more than dent the shell unless it is very thin sheet metal like the outer skin of a car door.

What about the wheels/tires? Rear-wheel drive vehicles don't drive too well with a tire blown out, and are more likely to attract identifiable attention.

Further, if the vehicle is a van or box truck as pictured, someone shooting at the tires may do so from a position of relative safety provided he's not directly behind the vehicle.

[templar]

,,,which makes this guy a non-garden-variety individual...and probably NOT a whackjob.

I agree, he's probably not a psycho. I'm just not sure he's some kind of highly trained hit man either. (That is a possibility though. some group hires a pro to pull it off?). I'm sure that this is deliberately calculated for some purpose. And, unless these are long range shots that require real skill, it wouldn't need a trained marksman to pull it off. We're talking rifle, not pistol, and almost anyone with the right demeanor could do this with a rifle at moderate ranges. This puts it within the capability of almost any extreme group or person, or it could also be some highly organized terror group. There just isn't the information available to speculate accurately yet (if ever). What happens if he/she/they are never caught? That could be even more interesting than if they are.

[B4Ranch]

What I want for my Jeep is one of the belt-fed 40mm guns along with Ma Deuce, the M-2 Browning .50 cal belt-fed gun....

Happiness, as we say in the trade, is a belt-fed weapon

You are sooooo easy to please!

[templar]

We needed homeland defence six months ago.

We needed immigration controll ten years ago. But we're jsut speculating that foreign terrorists are involved at this point. Heck, for all we know, it could be some gov agent off on a binge for some wierd reason.

[river rat]

"... trigger happy little sack of shit...."

A sack of shit has substance..
Lon Horuchi was a wasted lay, with the best part running down his momma's thigh. No substance there.

Semper Fi

[templar]

My favorite guess on the weapon is a single shot center fire pistol such as the Contender.

Maybe I've missed it, but has anyone found out the range of these shots? The contender would have limited range, even with a really good shot, and should have been heard (and located) by quite a few people.

[Gracey]

. . a little more flamboyant than I would normally go with . . . but hey

Great sense of humor... LMAO!!!!!

[templar]

The skin of the average "box" truck can be penetrated easily by the Girand's 30-06 ammo. An average sidearm, however, most likely will do little more than dent the shell unless it is very thin sheet metal like the outer skin of a car door.

The skin of most of these trucks is of a light weight aluminum. It's light to lessen the weight of the truck so it can carry more weight in cargo. It can be easily penetrated by a rimfire 22, most pistol rounds will go right through both sides (.45 excepted, as the 45 doesn't penetrate well on hard objects)

[Angelus Errare]

A couple of thoughts on all the comments being poured into this thread.

Let me begin with the caveat that we have no hard evidence that this is terrorism.

There was a security report of some kind or another that was leaked to the press saying that there were around 5,000 active al-Qaeda still inside the US, with possibly more coming in from Europe, Canada, and Mexico. However, that was including the logistical people, like the financiers who run Islamic charities, set up safehouses, ect. Best estimates I've seen range between 150-200, not counting the 50 or so members of the Martyrdom Battalion that John Walker says were sent over here to hit the US.

Also, race and ethnicity ... simply doesn't matter when it comes to al-Qaeda. They could use Hispanics like Jose Padilla, Blacks from the Nation of Islam, Bosnians, Chechens, Albanians, Filippinos, Indonesians, ad infinitum. The organization is a LOT bigger than its Egyptian/Saudi core leadership. Look at the Jordanian Chechen who gots busted with $12,000,000 in bogus checks, he looks like a regular white boy.

Additionally, al-Qaeda doesn't claim responsibility for its terrorist attacks for quite awhile after they've occurred (and only then very sparingly), instead forcing the investigators to tell the public who's responsible. The reason lies in the fact that if they did claim responsibility, the authorities would have a solid lead on who to look out for, an advantage al-Qaeda wishes to deprive themselves of until after the fact. So if you're curious as to why if the group was behind OKC, TWA Flight 800, EgyptAir, the LAX shooting, ect., the fact of the matter is that they don't operate like Hamas or the Islamic Jihad.

Regarding an IRA connection, I have to say that I doubt it. The IRA and its splinter groups depend on American sympathizers for cash donations and occasional arm shipments. More to the point, they have never had any beef with the US.

The rather random selection of victims seems to rule against this being either an incredibly smart psychopath (in most cases these people know exactly who they're going after and have some grievance of some sort against them), but right now we'll just have to wait and see.

The more people who are involved in this (and at this point there's at least two), though, the better the chance that this is al-Qaeda in action. The shooter(s) have already evaded law enforcement as well as killed about as many as those who die in the average homicide bombing. And they're still out there.

[templar]

The rather random selection of victims seems to rule against this being either an incredibly smart psychopath (in most cases these people know exactly who they're going after and have some grievance of some sort against them)...

Maybe one smart enough to take out the one person he wanted to and then make it look like something else entirely with a few calculated random shootings?

[SteveH]

If I and the other FReepers who are guessing these murderers are Islamic terrorists are right, then we've reached a new low in this country.

Maybe, maybe not if one considers OKC, some of the outside TWA800 possibilities, WTC-93, etc.

Seems to me that the locus of the problem centers around the FBI itself, which I would break down into two components: leadership, and the troops (e.g. special agents, profilers, etc.). The latter (troops) I have seen in and observed in action a few times, and I hope no one is offended if I say (as a just a civilian observer) that the output leaves something to be desired. To a certain extent, that is excuseable because at least they are trying to the best of their ability and training. The leadership (starting with Freeh, etc. and continuing up through at least the end of the Clinton era) however seems to me a different story.

In this particular case it has me wondering if there is something in the FBI procedures book that goes like follow Occam's Razor. The most handy folks to hang a given random terrorist act on in the U.S. has been the typical militia type, since (I guess) at least Ruby Ridge (circa 1992; note: pre-Clinton). Whether through sheer laziness, lack of training material upgrade or some valid reason, that still seems to be the case today. There probably are more militia types with the appropriate firepower than anyone else out there, so the numbers alone, all other factors being equal, would seem to favor the militia nut or militia cell scenario. I don't buy it but this is just the numbers.

A possible contributing factor: if one steps through the various online applications for various low level fed. gov. positions, including FBI, one eventually comes to a form which IIRC requires inputting one's race and gender as a prerequisite to submitting the app. What is this info used for if not to screen for (or alternatively, somehow, "against") "racial and gender diversity"? The implication (to me) is that race, gender, and potentially other irrelevant factors such as sexual orientation seem very much used as part of the federal hiring screening and selection process. This if correct would leave open the possibility that the goal of "diversity" is rampant throughout the organization, including downplaying racial profiling of potential suspects. In turn, that if true could lead to omitting or de-emphasizing certain race-oriented clues via institutional bias...

Again, GIGO and/or Peter Principle in action.

[Angelus Errare]

The problem with that is that the guy would have already had his little killing spree on Thursday. So even if he wanted to cover up his killing by nailing a bunch of unrelated folks, why strike again?

[dcwusmc]

That's just for the Jeep. Wait til you see what I want for the house. I'll discuss the Claymores, the 155 howitzer, the 60mm and 81mm mortars and the rest another time... :-)

[ladyinred]

Thanks for posting this article. Although I just read on another thread the name of someone they are looking for, we sure don't know all of the facts yet, so this is something we must all be aware of.

[Sacajaweau]

Agree...The connection is likely the guys in Oregon who were picked up. They received weapons training in Washougal, Wash..

The timing is right and the motive is similar to what the Palestinians do...kill innocents in retaliation for a hit or capture of their people.

It may be the particular forte of the Oregon cell.

Now, I'm guessing...but every cell has a second (or next) cell attached.

The capture or activation of one activates the second....

The parachute scenario in Carolina might have been activated by the capture of the Buffalo cell.

One of the Oregon guys was a USA soldier w/ administrative discharge.

Some of the guys in Buffalo trained at the camps in Afghanistan.

Lot of questions, lot of dots...somehow, they're connected.

Everything always occurs in eastern time zone during daylight savings time in broad daylight AND IMMEDIATELY makes NATIONAL NEWS.

Highway 1-95 is also in play again as it was when Atta was running up and down the coast.

But don't forget the BIG picture...these terrorists operate like dominoes...These hits may be a diversion similar to Anthrax...not a lot of deaths but chaos and fear. (Don't forget the UN shooting this week in NY also). Despite the propaganda he tossed about (which I believe was just a farce), the guy was a postal worker .

Sac