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Living dinosaurs
abc.net.au ^
| 9/30/2002
Posted on 10/01/2002 8:32:43 AM PDT by SteveH
News in Science
News in Science 30/9/2002 Living dinosaurs
[This is the print version of story http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s687677.htm]
If we are to believe the message of a new exhibit demonstrating the evolutionary transition from dinosaurs to birds, dinosaurs are not extinct.
Four life-sized reconstructions of ferocious-looking, smart-thinking, flesh-eating feathered dinosaurs – representing 125 million-year-old missing links between dinosaurs and birds – have landed at the Australian Museum in Sydney as part of the Chinese Dinosaurs exhibition.
"The birds we see flying around our backyards are actually living dinosaurs, descendants of prehistoric beasts we all once presumed became extinct 65 million years ago," said museum director, Professor Mike Archer.
"But feathers were evolving as dinosaur attributes long before they became valuable as flight structures," he said.
"Indeed fossils uncovered in the Liaoning Province of China have provided a whole sequence of missing links in the dinosaur to bird story."
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Model of Sinornithosaurus smillenii (pronounced 'sine-or-nith-oh-saw-rus mill-en-ee-eye) made by Alan Groves working with palaeontologists Drs Walter Boles and Sue Hand.
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One of the earlier links is Sinosauropteryx prima. The creature is covered with what looks to be a fine fuzz but are really small barbs – a link between scales and feathers.
"It's a metre-long, meat-eating, ground-dwelling predator, closely related to the dinosaur in Jurassic Park II which ate the little girl on the beach," said Professor Archer.
He speculated these very early feathers were probably for insulation since this group was almost certainly warm blooded.
The Sinornithosaurus millenii (top picture) embodies a later link.
"This is a very vicious little predator about a metre long. But here the feathers are much larger – although they're not fully formed or capable of flight," said Professor Archer.
An interesting characteristic of the creature was its capacity to lift its arms over its head in a flapping motion. Professor Archer said scientists assumed its array of feathers had a purpose – to frighten predators, help capture prey, attract mates or threaten male competitors.
The next stage – the development of feathers for flight – is seen in creatures like the Archseopteryx, a smaller animal than Sinornithosaurus millenii with longer and assymetrical feathers.
While there has been some debate as to whether dinosaurs (unlike other groups of reptiles) are the ancestors of birds, Professor Archer believes since 1996 there has been no strong argument against the hypothesis.
"I don't know anyone who is still holding out on this one," he said. "Other than the creationists of course who don't want anything to be ancestral to birds."
Chinese Dinosaurs is open until February next year. The dino-bird exhibit is sponsored by The Australian Skeptics.
Anna Salleh - ABC Science Online
More Info?
British Natural History Museum Dino-Birds Exhibition
Missing link from fur to feathers – News in Science 27/4/2001
Dinosaur fossil with proto-feathers – News in Science 8/3/2001
Dinosaur-bird theory defended – News in Science 24/11/2000
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© ABC 2002 | privacy
TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: birds; crevolist; dinosaurs; evolution; paleontology
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To: gore3000
Do your morals include lying -- like the evolutionist misquotes you cite on occassion? Do your morals include calling those who disagree with you "liars" and "slime?" These crevo threads were relatively well-mannered up until you started posting on them a little more than a year ago. Yeah, there were heated arguments, but none of those arguments devolved into the vitriolic acid-fests they have since you began posting. You are proof positive children should be seen and not heard.
81
posted on
10/01/2002 6:41:30 PM PDT
by
Junior
To: VadeRetro
Check out "Old World Chamelions", These creatures fit ALL the "Dinosaur Criteria!"
To: Junior
Running joke is 'evo-science'...
biggest cult of oxy-moonie-morons---art bells!
Latest evo gem--artist...
Sure. All domesticated animal husbandry is proof of evolution but in the case of planned animal husbandry, man, rather than environmental influences, play the role of selectivity. Try to think this through, which, I realize, may not be easy. If you cross a poodle to a poodle, do you get a wolf? (Knock, Knock)
Now: Do you care to give me scientific proof that God exists?
I'm not kidding. You people amaze me.
294 posted on 8/25/02 12:02 PM Pacific by AllSmiles
More...
Like FR 'patrickhenry'...
"search for the creator via evolution"---
"total--only evolution" too---
The papal encyclical rightwingprofessor-whack thinks/interprets---"professes evolution"...
could abortion be next???
Nebullis..."preschool evolution---INTENSIVELY"---
donh..."if the sun can create crystals-snowflakes...human life would certainly follow"---
(Why, if the sun can create crystals and snowflakes, can't it create life?)
(How much different is my paraphase of your rhetorical question---statement!)
also by donh...Hitler and nazi germany were all Christians---creationists!
(With this statement we can safely say bankrobbers/murderers are auditors/morticians!)
dominick harr..."just like a ball bouncing down the stairs----evolution created everything"---
jennyp..."anarchist evolutionary(natural) capitalism---Christianity(manmade) is communism"---
and patrickhenry doesn't know..."if prior to darwin---if science existed"...
SkyRat...Divine hammer-retribution from above via evolution!
exdemmom...evolution is the "lug wrench" that fixes science--biology/life!
Running sores of evo schlock!
Few new ones by the vade--junior--ph evo cult...
More schlock---latests(evo proof/matches/links)...
over---abundance of dung for beetles...schlock providence/miracles
ground depressions on earth surfaces collect liquids producing ponding---more spontaneous schlock opportunities/diversity...
motion/movement is created via biological interference/resistance in gravitational force fields...
foot/toe ground contact---attractions/balance...
standing/walking/running upright
amazing...dancing too!
My own...how evo schlock made us...
Insects vibrate molecules and gas particles---sound...and how humans procreate via words/instruments---music/songs.
I get it!
This schlock is so simple...natural---unplanned---no design!
Presto...mommies/daddies---babies!
Only logic--sense--sanity could schock the evo-schlock world...if it could penetrate it!
One more evo gem by allsmiles...
CLASSIC...
I really don't care who is crazy as long as they are tame. But the religious are not tame. They insist upon imposing their lunatic beliefs upon the rational and the children of the rational. That's where you get yourselves in trouble. If you have any confidence in what you are saying at all, be content to keep it to yourselves, as atheists are.
381 posted on 8/26/02 5:42 AM Pacific by AllSmiles
Yeah...as atheists are?
To: gore3000
(( Crickets chirping ))
Nothing put up. You're going back on ignore where you belong, troll! Keep your blue spew out of my reply queue. I'm running out of words to express how contemptible I find you.
To: Junior
Like FR 'patrickhenry'...
"search for the creator via evolution"---
"TOTAL--ONLY evolution" too---"NO COMPETITION"!
To: general_re; VadeRetro; Junior
Gods, I'd love to join in the fun you guys are having, but I generally keep my name shielded. I'm known to a few freepers, but considering the whackos who often inhabit these threads, I think it's best to remain ingognito. However, that being my choice, I don't denounce others for it -- unlike someone who posts in blue.
To: VadeRetro
SCHLOCK-evo con artist and you find people contemptible!
To: PatrickHenry
Using other's peoples good name to post evil is a crime---slander!
To: VadeRetro
Nothing put up. Duh! He never even acknowledged the circle is an ellipse either. Not once in the plethora of posts that pointed out his fundamental mistake.
To: PatrickHenry
However, that being my choice, I don't denounce others for it -- unlike someone who posts in blue. I can understand remaining anonymous. But if you're going to criticize someone for hiding behind a pseudonym: 1) you should not be doing so, yourself, 2) the other person should be doing so, himself.
To: PatrickHenry
I'm not having fun. I feel dirty after tangling with LBB like this. I think I'm going to take a shower before heading to bed.
91
posted on
10/01/2002 6:52:59 PM PDT
by
Junior
To: VadeRetro; general_re; Junior; gore3000
You got him on that one, but you are still down about 15-5 in the threads I've seen. I'm talking about the issues of substance on the thread, - how solid is the proof that currently described evo mechanisms explain what we see?
Most of his losses came in his early days. I respect you guys as worthy opponents, and I think you should respect him as one too. He IS. He maybe got caught on this point, but not on the issue of the thread. Not on the substnace of this debate.
The proposed bird ancestors you show come along AFTER birds, or much more bird-like creatures, are already around. That and the ostrich digit study (showing that birds and dinos have different digits that develop) should tilt the evidence away from ANY of the dinos shown as being a bird ancestor.
Even the evo authors of that ostrich study say that. They think the 'common ancestor' must be pushed so far back that it was something that gave rise to both birds and dinos.
Your standard of proof seems to be 'if I can show you anything that looks like it could be a graduated series (even we know it does not belong in that series) then you must accept evoltion as fact'. If I am reluctant to accept such a flimsy standard of "proof" then I am a person who is trying to "ignore the evidence".
I am calling on gore3000 and all of you to stop with the personal insults and debate the evidence like civilized people. Please?
92
posted on
10/01/2002 6:54:37 PM PDT
by
Ahban
To: Junior
To: f.Christian
Now I follow, thank you. Actually, I don't disagree with this at all since I see the left as abandoning the uncertianty of democracy and majority rule for the assurance technocracy and expert rule.
152 posted on 9/10/02 12:17 PM Pacific by Liberal Classic
Total--only evolution...NO COMPETITION!
To: Ahban
You got him on that one, but you are still down about 15-5 in the threads I've seen. I hope you're never called upon to referee anything, ever.
To: Ahban
Well you must have missed the orbits/circle/ellipse arguments then.
To: Junior
Good one!!
To: Ahban
Evolution is a criminal conspiracy and I see in the near future there is going to be a new civil rights revolution happening.
There are enormous injustices and injury to levy and correct!
To: f.Christian
Evolution is a criminal conspiracyROTFLMAO!
To: VadeRetro
I can understand remaining anonymous. But if you're going to criticize someone for hiding behind a pseudonym: 1) you should not be doing so, yourself, 2) the other person should be doing so, himself. The contradictions in that person's position on the anonymity issue are quite apparent. Not the first time he's been inconsistent (or wildly elliptical), I might add:
Of course he was a creationist. If he was a Christian he believed in a Creator.
There are no creationists. [but see above]
You [PatrickHenry] have been suspended several times.
The-Earth-is-old-and-Henry-Morris-is-right.
Wildly elliptical.
1720.
Nobel Prize for biology.
All discoveries disprove evolution.
DNA disproves evolution.
The fossil record disproves evolution.
Nobel Prize for creationism.
Genetic variation has nothing to do with evolution.
To: PatrickHenry
ROFL! Nice list. :-)
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