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1 posted on 09/23/2002 12:47:24 PM PDT by SLB
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To: SLB
So far, we have managed to raise a great kid to the age of 4 years old without using corporal punishment even once.

I really don't think spanking is an effective technique for discipline. Not that I think it should be outlawed.

But personally, I just could not smacking or spanking my little daughter for any reason.

I know a lot of Freepers disagree with me. Flame away.

2 posted on 09/23/2002 12:53:46 PM PDT by Maceman
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To: SLB
Jones said he thinks it is appropriate to give young children a light slap on the hand or the bottom when they are doing something that could harm them, such as playing with outlets or running into the street.

I believe this is the only time when spanking is warrented. In situations like this it is more important to send a strong message, something the child will NEVER forget. I remember very little of my early childhood, but I do remember how I got my butt spanked for pushing my little sister down a flight of stairs. Ain't done it since.
5 posted on 09/23/2002 1:02:48 PM PDT by Nathan Jr.
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To: SLB
“Instead of saying, ‘You need to go to bed on time because Mom’s really tired and needs some rest, find a kid reason,” Rubeck said. “A kid isn’t going to care if Mom is tired. A kid reason would be, ‘If you go to bed early tonight, maybe you can earn a reward for the weekend, such as inviting a friend over.’”

Bribery. Yeah, that's brilliant, Doc. (By the way, you changed your example from "on time" to "early" in midstream.)

6 posted on 09/23/2002 1:04:57 PM PDT by newgeezer
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To: SLB
I've named my right hand "Ritalin". Neither one of my kids want Ritalin. That being said, there is a line between discipline and violence/beatings. Corporal punishment is used when attempts at reasoning fail. Violence/beatings are used when the parent is mad, therefore unreasonable him/herself, or when they are just animals themselves
16 posted on 09/23/2002 1:18:20 PM PDT by 5Madman2
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To: SLB
Im 20 my dad beat the s*** outta me on rare occasions. For the most part he was right.
18 posted on 09/23/2002 1:23:03 PM PDT by weikel
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To: SLB; AppyPappy

Stupid Questions: Opportunity or Diversion?

Dan
19 posted on 09/23/2002 1:23:25 PM PDT by BibChr
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To: SLB
“Instead of saying, ‘You need to go to bed on time because Mom’s really tired and needs some rest, find a kid reason,” Rubeck said. “A kid isn’t going to care if Mom is tired. A kid reason would be, ‘If you go to bed early tonight, maybe you can earn a reward for the weekend, such as inviting a friend over.’

Another stupid suggestion from the idiot left. Teach your kids that unless they get something, they don't need to behave. That turns them into adults who won't do anything unless they are going to "get theirs".

My son is 7 and I have used spanking since he was in diapers. It is very rarely necessary. Of course when they are toddlers, the level of force required is just slightly more than a touch. A lot of it is the shock factor not pain factor. Simply being physically in control and visibly angry is enough to let the child know that it is time to behave. As my son has gotten older his spankings have decreased dramatically, and now, I don't really remember the exact last time he was spanked. I simply tell him to do something, and he does it.

Occassionally he will complain or argue. The first thing is to explain the situation logically in a manner the child understands. 90% of the time, that is all it takes. Even when the child wants something, they also want to please their parents and behave. It is only when they can't reconcile these 2 desires that problems arise. Once a child has learned discipline in their earliest years, the remaining 10% of the time can usually be overcome with a simple look.

My wife's friend has 2 boys my sons age, one 2 weeks difference, one a year younger. When they were smaller they used to come to our house for visits, and I used to let my son go there. Their mother uses the "please be nice or I'll say please be nice again" method of lefty discipline. Unfortunately, the kids have degenerated into literal monsters. I no longer allow them in my house, nor is my son allowed to visit them. The last time they came, they were so horrible, my son was totally uncomfortable. He couldn't figure out why they were acting so bad and he was visibly upset. It is sad that my son has lost 2 friends, but it is trageic that those 2 boys will grow up to be the worst kind of men you'll ever meet.

34 posted on 09/23/2002 1:47:03 PM PDT by thedugal
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To: SLB
So let's follow this logic.

Spanking causes children to act out in violent ways.

Spanking as an accepted form of discipline/punishment has been seen in an every increasingly negative way since the late 60's.

Spanking by Parents and schools has decreased severly due to societal views becoming increasingly negative.

Today's children are much less violent and much better well-behaved than children who grew up while being spanked.

Oops, that arguement doesn't wash.

Let's try another.

Today's children are much more willing to accept the authority of a teacher and are much better students.

Oops, that arguement doesn't wash.

Let's try another.

Today's children are better socially adjusted and mature.

Yeah, that's it!

Wait, maybe it's because we pump them full of Ritalin and other such drugs.

So in conlclusion, while a pat on the bottom in anathema, pumping your child full of psychotropic drugs is a perfectly healthy way to modify your child's behavior.

Makes sense to me.

36 posted on 09/23/2002 1:50:44 PM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: newgeezer
Not so, childhood experts say.

STOP THE TAPE! Are these secular experts or Christian experts?

41 posted on 09/23/2002 1:53:47 PM PDT by biblewonk
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To: SLB
You are leaving the house with your 10 and 6 year old sons. The six year old steps outside, closeds the front door, and then absentmindedly, remains standing in front of it. This is Florida, the front doors open out. The 10 year old opens the door and is met with the resistence of his brother on the other side who says "Hey!". He reacts by giving the door a considerable shove, sending his little brother flying. Little brother lands on driveway, knee's first.

The 10 year old is usually a good kid, but he has been having a bad day and is obviously taking it out on the 6 year old.

What do you do?

A. Quietly explain to the 10 year old that intentionally hurting his brother is not acceptable.
B. Remove a privelage (take away computer, TV, etc.)
C. Give him a smack on the rear.

42 posted on 09/23/2002 1:55:41 PM PDT by Crusher138
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To: SLB
...she said. “Kids are learning that it’s OK to hit."

Well, duh... It IS okay to hit under some circumstances. Where did we get this touchy-feely idea that violence is always bad no matter what?

57 posted on 09/23/2002 2:01:07 PM PDT by Sloth
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To: SLB
I strongly recommend What the Bible Says About Child Training by Richard Fugate. The method he lays out in this excellent manual makes a lot of sense, and teaches the reader to keep anger out of the equation.

He clearly delineates between correction and punishment (they aren't the same thing) and between teaching and training, as well as between innocent transgressions and rebellion.

These are important distinctions for parents to master. Some of the points Fugate makes:

1. Never hit a child with your hand. Hands are for loving, healing, protecting. Use a rod instead.

2. The rod is used to correct rebellion, not as a punishment. As soon as the child agrees with you that his/her behavior was unacceptable, you withdraw the rod.

3. As soon as the child repents of the rebellious behavior, you immediately forgive unconditionally, and love him/her real good and close.

4. Punishment should fit the crime IOW, if s/he breaks something, s/he fixes it or pays with his/her own labor to replace it.

62 posted on 09/23/2002 2:10:42 PM PDT by savedbygrace
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To: SLB
“Spanking is just teaching a child another form of violence,” she said. “Kids are learning that it’s OK to hit. Mom and Dad do it, so it’s OK to hit someone to get what I want.”

This is such bull hockey. I was spanked as a child, and I grew up knowing it was not alright to hit other people (except of course, it was okay to spank My child.) My son was also spanked, and he doesn't go about hitting people.

It's the kids who never get real discipline and whose parents are obsessed with their child's 'self esteem' who have the self-control problems, Ms. Rubeck.

68 posted on 09/23/2002 2:21:52 PM PDT by MEGoody
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To: SLB
Discipline: Etymology: Middle English, from Old French & Latin; Old French, from Latin disciplina teaching, learning, from discipulus pupil
Discipline connotes a teacher-student relationship. Parents teach children the way they should go through morals, values and rules. The ultimate goal is self-discipline. This is learned through personal responsibility. Personal responsibility is learned from consequences of one’s actions---positive or negative consequences. The emphasis on positive consequences is much more effective than emphasis on the negative. Parents should have an arsenal of disciplinary “tools” under their belts to draw on at appropriate times. The key is appropriate tool for the specific time.
Spankings should be used sparingly. A spanking is one tool, among many tools. Spankings are overused, & IMO often misused. Misuse and overuse dilutes the effectiveness of spanking as a disciplinary tool. Spanking is most effective among toddlers & early school-aged children. Spanking is an inappropriate method of discipline among teens, who are capable of logical reasoning.
73 posted on 09/23/2002 2:27:06 PM PDT by exhaustedmomma
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To: SLB
Spanking is not needed.

Just pull hair at the temple a little and you will get the same result.
76 posted on 09/23/2002 2:30:43 PM PDT by A CA Guy
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To: SLB
This is just more "NEW AGE BULLSH*T"!
81 posted on 09/23/2002 2:37:24 PM PDT by INSENSITIVE GUY
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To: SLB
I am NOT a social scientist but I have this as an observation: The generation that produced the "Greatest Generation" had almost unanimously a "spare the rod and spoil the child" belief. If they produced the generation responsible for keeping the entire world free from Nazism and Facism then it stands to reason that an assumption can be made that spanking does NOT have the adverse effect that MOST everyone agrees with today.

Conversely the "Greatest Generation" (they mostly did SPARE THE ROD) is responsible for the 'flower child generation'. They planted the seed for the Dr. FeelGood, do your own thing, do gooders that followed Dr. Spock et al religiously producing what we see today as the PC world gone amouk.

Of course this is just this one man's opinion, I could be wrong!!

85 posted on 09/23/2002 2:44:23 PM PDT by PISANO
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To: SLB
Technology may improve over time but human nature is the same for the first man as is it will be for the next one born and so on. We may live longer, eat better, travel faster, and learn earlier, but human emotion and intellect and personality are a gift from the creator that makes us all spiritual and unique individuals.

The question of spank or not to spank is on the same level of the philisophical right and wrong. Today foolish people believe in relativism and do not believe in aboslutes and right and wrong. On different levels these are the majority of people that want a law to prevent any freedom and control and restrict all human behavior. Don't drink, don't smoke, don't speed, don't eat meat, don't own a gun, don't show God in any form in public!

Spanking is not punishment as much as it is deterrent. It is an action ment to convey to an individual that certain behavior is not acceptable and will result in a negative feedback. Children under the age of reason react to pleasure and pain. Food, shelter, warmth, comfort, and all their physical needs are the primary things on their minds. You can not reason with a 4 year old as to why an electric fan or a hot iron is not something to play with. You could let them injure themselves and discover it for themselves, but that is not parenting. They will remember the small discomfort of a gentle or forceful slap on the butt as a reminder they have over stepped the boundary or attempted something unsafe and will think twice before doing it again. They are not smart enough to be reasoned with nor can a stern look always accomplish what a spanking will. If they are stuborn or stupid they will try again and that is personality at play and eventauly as they get older it is good and evil at play. Yes, in some instances there are just plain evil people in the world that no amount of spanking, discipline, deterrence, will ever help. If they have no conscious or ability to understand or accept right from wrong and are phsycopathic than there is no cure.

There is a reason the Old Testament says to spare the rod will spoil the child. It is the fact that children never provided with the instruction of deterrence end up learning this lesson to late in life with more devestating results. That there are limits to socially accepted behavior, actions for public safety, and moral judgments.

Do all people have to spank? No, not if you are blessed with an intelligent angle or a child that never takes a risk or hardly explores their world or probes any of their limitations or limits. You are lucky. I was lucky and have two beautiful, loving, and charming young ladies for daughters. They learned to respect my voice and only once or twice when they were preschool age did I ever have to spank them and never again for the same reason. They learned the limits and they learned that I was consistant, loving, attentive, and looking out for their welfare and the families welfare and that my wife and I set the limits for acceptable behavior or acceptable exploration of life. They are go getters and not afraid of life and respect others. They are better than me and my wife in many ways. Not all people are the same. So don't tell me spanking is never allowed. Don't use the words always and never because these can only be applied by God who is perfect and only mimicked by the government which is always imperfect but thinks it is god.

88 posted on 09/23/2002 2:55:32 PM PDT by Mat_Helm
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To: SLB
Never let them define the points of the argument

They are using "discipline" in the verb tense. That gives more weight to their side.

RE: Sarasota, FL. a Downtown "Noise" Oridnance stops restaurants from featuring music outside at certain venues.

See? They defined the terms of the argument because it certainly isn't a "music" ordinance.

89 posted on 09/23/2002 2:58:09 PM PDT by perfect stranger
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To: SLB
“Instead of saying, ‘You need to go to bed on time because Mom’s really tired and needs some rest, find a kid reason,” Rubeck said. “A kid isn’t going to care if Mom is tired. A kid reason would be, ‘If you go to bed early tonight, maybe you can earn a reward for the weekend, such as inviting a friend over.’”

my six-year old doesn't need a "kid reason." he would care if i were tired... at six years, he does not believe the world revolves around him... he's not so enthralled in just himself...

97 posted on 09/23/2002 7:59:02 PM PDT by latina4dubya
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