Spanking: Discipline or violence

Wyoming Tribune-Eagle ^ | 23 Sep | Ilene Olson

[Eagle Eye]

You are correct, you don't understand the process.

Some children may never need much, if any spanking. If you are speaking of your experience with a single four year old, I'd suggest that your experience is very narrow.

What you can do with one may not work as well with four. But you may not be able to see that. Yet.

[Neckbone]

I completely agree with you. Kind of like being a vegetarian, though, the very act of not believing in spanking seems to really offend some people. I have never once spanked my six (almost seven now- I can't believe it) year-old son. Does he get into mischief? I should hope so, that's his job. But what message does spanking communicate other than the effectiveness of the use of violence to force your will on another?

Eagle Eye commented "Reasoning with toddlers. Yeah, right." I think that this is really the line that seperates those who like to spank and those that don't. I would never claim to have successfully sat my two year-old down for a conversation about behavior. Instead I used facial expression and vocal tonality to make my point. He got the point, and it changed his behavior. I'm sure it would've been faster and easier to just hit him, and I think it is this lack of patience that makes spanking so prevalent.

[VoiceOfBruck]

Every kid's different, but my observation from friends and family is that kids who don't get firm discipline as young children turn out to be total a-holes as older children. And firm discipline usually involves at least the option of corporal punishment.

I may be observing the effects of multiple variables, however; parents in my acquaintance who eschew corporal punishment tend to be fairly lax in other forms of discipline as well.

In your case, I wish you well, but with only 4 years of successful parenting, it's a little early to be declaring victory.

[two23]

There is another approach that doesn't work either...the child is acting up in the store...temper tantrum, whining incessantly or down-right screaming, and the perplexed mother just IGNORES the behaviour. Yikes...I always wonder if the mother ignores the problem because she is too afraid to discipline the child in public or whether she thinks if she just ignores the problem it'll go away---?

[SLB]

One of the hot button topics today is the spanking issue.

Was I spanked? You bet. Did it scar me for life? I don't think so. I was never beaten, but sure got spanked and sure knew exactly why I was getting the spanking. Was life better then? You be the judge. As a parent of five I understand how difficult it is to be a parent. However, there is no excuse for the rudeness and disrespect I see coming from today's kids. When I was growing up I addressed everyone that was an adult as either "sir" or "mam" I immediately rose from my seat when either a "sir" or "mam" entered the room. I sure didn't lounge in front of a TV for endless and mindless hours.

[CholeraJoe]

I for one agree with you. My daughter is 14 and has never received corporal punishment. She's intelligent and well-behaved. When discipline is required, a stern word and an explanation of why her behavior was unacceptable gets the desired result.

[Eagle Eye]

Eagle Eye commented "Reasoning with toddlers. Yeah, right." I think that this is really the line that seperates those who like to spank and those that don't.

I don't like your tone and the fact that you chose to address this without my attention. Was this a simple oversight or do you have a courage deficit?

"Liking" to spank isn't the issue and I really, really find it offensive that you would imply that I enjoy hitting children. I don't "like" grounding children, or "like" making them drop out of a team sport for low academics either, but I have done those things as well.

Since your whole experience seems to be with a single child, I'll suggest that you have only a very narrow and limited view of parenting. My youngest is twice as old as yours. I suspect that if I hadn't spanked when they were young, I'd have more troubles now that I've got four teens.

But maybe I should yield to your whole seven years of wisdom.

[Neckbone]

I always wonder if the mother ignores the problem because she is too afraid to discipline the child in public or whether she thinks if she just ignores the problem it'll go away---?

I have always wondered about that as well! When my son was in the screaming infant/toddler phases I would remove both of us from whatever crowd we were in until he chilled out. I also wouldn't take him to restaraunts until he got through those phases, as I hate few things as much as a lot of noise while I'm trying to eat and I assumed others were the same way.

Those are the lessons I teach my child- manners and consideration- and I don't teach them through beating.

[two23]

"When I was growing up I addressed everyone that was an adult as either "sir" or "mam" I immediately rose from my seat when either a "sir" or "mam" entered the room. I sure didn't lounge in front of a TV for endless and mindless hours."

Yep--we were taught to --get this--courtsy or bow when being introduced to adults for the first time!!! LOL!

[Eagle Eye]

When discipline is required, a stern word and an explanation of why her behavior was unacceptable gets the desired result.

Good for you. It doesn't always work out that way. As a doc, you should also know that little boys and little girls, especially when they are part of a group of children, don't behave the same way, not to say that boys all behave the same way either, of course.

[newgeezer]

Oh. Your previous reply indicated to me (falsely, it seems) that you disagreed with me, and considered bribery to be the preferred alternative to reasoning.

Toddlers can be reasoned with, on their own level. Ours understood the simple choice between obedience and disobedience.

[RobRoy]

>>Keep your chin up, you haven't even started your descent into the abyss yet.<<

Yeah, once your boy hit's about 14, it's gonna take a 34 0z Lousville Slugger. For the girls, anything used in T-ball will work.

Seriously, people are individuals. Some are little angels thoughout their lives. Unfortunately this usually means they are easily controlled and will never rise above mediocrity.

On the other hand, the kid that is constantly pushing the limits and, yes, REQUIRING the parent to get physical (call it "acute" discipline) often, if kept somewhat civilized (and out of jail), goes on to live a truly extraordinary life. History is full of examples.

BTW, I was joking about the baseball and T-ball implements. A wooden spatula or wide belt worked best for me - and the child was under twelve (Jewish for child). I also agree with statemets from the retired teacher. That is, there needs to be some sort of building up afterwards - making it a clean slate afterwards is the key to it's effectiveness. That is, a spanking brings closure to a "wrong" done by a child. it is amazingly effective in that way. It frees the child of their sin. It is actually an amazingly effective biblical concept.

[TXBubba]

I had a similar experience when my son was 2 1/2. He went balistic in the middle of the food court at the mall. I ended up carrying him kicking and screaming out of the mall because I was too afraid to swat his bottom in public. I certainly don't beat my child.

Time outs work for him now but there was a time when he would misbehave, look at me, at say, "give me a time out". After one incident where he kept returning to a "time out" for a total of 1 hour and 1/2 I determined the "swat" was a better deterant.

He has a little boy friend who is so mild he never gets into trouble and a little girl friend whose parent's are all talk and no action. Then they can't figure out why no one wants their daughter at their house. She blows you off now matter what you say.

[thedugal]

“Instead of saying, ‘You need to go to bed on time because Mom’s really tired and needs some rest, find a kid reason,” Rubeck said. “A kid isn’t going to care if Mom is tired. A kid reason would be, ‘If you go to bed early tonight, maybe you can earn a reward for the weekend, such as inviting a friend over.’

Another stupid suggestion from the idiot left. Teach your kids that unless they get something, they don't need to behave. That turns them into adults who won't do anything unless they are going to "get theirs".

My son is 7 and I have used spanking since he was in diapers. It is very rarely necessary. Of course when they are toddlers, the level of force required is just slightly more than a touch. A lot of it is the shock factor not pain factor. Simply being physically in control and visibly angry is enough to let the child know that it is time to behave. As my son has gotten older his spankings have decreased dramatically, and now, I don't really remember the exact last time he was spanked. I simply tell him to do something, and he does it.

Occassionally he will complain or argue. The first thing is to explain the situation logically in a manner the child understands. 90% of the time, that is all it takes. Even when the child wants something, they also want to please their parents and behave. It is only when they can't reconcile these 2 desires that problems arise. Once a child has learned discipline in their earliest years, the remaining 10% of the time can usually be overcome with a simple look.

My wife's friend has 2 boys my sons age, one 2 weeks difference, one a year younger. When they were smaller they used to come to our house for visits, and I used to let my son go there. Their mother uses the "please be nice or I'll say please be nice again" method of lefty discipline. Unfortunately, the kids have degenerated into literal monsters. I no longer allow them in my house, nor is my son allowed to visit them. The last time they came, they were so horrible, my son was totally uncomfortable. He couldn't figure out why they were acting so bad and he was visibly upset. It is sad that my son has lost 2 friends, but it is trageic that those 2 boys will grow up to be the worst kind of men you'll ever meet.

[ohioman]

It is up to you how you raise your child. I will spank mine only when warranted. But in all, no SOB will ever tell me or my wife how to raise our children.

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

So let's follow this logic.

Spanking causes children to act out in violent ways.

Spanking as an accepted form of discipline/punishment has been seen in an every increasingly negative way since the late 60's.

Spanking by Parents and schools has decreased severly due to societal views becoming increasingly negative.

Today's children are much less violent and much better well-behaved than children who grew up while being spanked.

Oops, that arguement doesn't wash.

Let's try another.

Today's children are much more willing to accept the authority of a teacher and are much better students.

Oops, that arguement doesn't wash.

Let's try another.

Today's children are better socially adjusted and mature.

Yeah, that's it!

Wait, maybe it's because we pump them full of Ritalin and other such drugs.

So in conlclusion, while a pat on the bottom in anathema, pumping your child full of psychotropic drugs is a perfectly healthy way to modify your child's behavior.

Makes sense to me.

[Eagle Eye]

Those are the lessons I teach my child- manners and consideration- and I don't teach them through beating.

Obviously you are among those that don't understand the difference between spanking and beating.

You had one child and defered taking her to a restaurant due to her behavior.

I had four kids and took them to restaurants and taught them proper behavior. When you have four small children at one table, silliness can get out of hand quickly. A quick swat on the back of the hand with a chop stick gets their attention quickly, lets them know that they are out of line, and does no harm to the child.

However, since you stayed out of restaurants due to the poor behavior of your single child and I didn't have to with my four kids, I should listen to you? BTW, after a short while, my kids got so used to adults coming over to the table and complimenting their behavior that they began to behave themselves and not need the hand swats.

[ohioman]

So you actually think it is wrong for a parent to spank his or her kids?

[Texas_Jarhead]

ditto your comments to a 'T'

[Neckbone]

I don't like your tone and the fact that you chose to address this without my attention. Was this a simple oversight or do you have a courage deficit?

A simple oversight, I assure you- and I'll assume my oversight was the cause of your beligerence. That said...

I believe that it is not necessary to cause physical pain to make a point. Okay, my son is younger than your child. Does that somehow invalidate my point? Will I one day awaken on his eleventh birthday to find that the foundation of mutual respect and dicipline that I have instilled in him his entire life has been erased? I doubt that.

I also question whether multiple children raised under the same exact philosophy of spanking is a statistically significant population for you to rest your "more knowledgeable than thou" argument on.