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>>Keep your chin up, you haven't even started your descent into the abyss yet.<<

Yeah, once your boy hit's about 14, it's gonna take a 34 0z Lousville Slugger. For the girls, anything used in T-ball will work.

Seriously, people are individuals. Some are little angels thoughout their lives. Unfortunately this usually means they are easily controlled and will never rise above mediocrity.

On the other hand, the kid that is constantly pushing the limits and, yes, REQUIRING the parent to get physical (call it "acute" discipline) often, if kept somewhat civilized (and out of jail), goes on to live a truly extraordinary life. History is full of examples.

BTW, I was joking about the baseball and T-ball implements. A wooden spatula or wide belt worked best for me - and the child was under twelve (Jewish for child). I also agree with statemets from the retired teacher. That is, there needs to be some sort of building up afterwards - making it a clean slate afterwards is the key to it's effectiveness. That is, a spanking brings closure to a "wrong" done by a child. it is amazingly effective in that way. It frees the child of their sin. It is actually an amazingly effective biblical concept.

There is a world of difference between "beating" and what I received as corporal punishment. My sister was the good child, I was obstinate, wayward, and continuously pushing the limits. I was spanked so seldom, even at that, that I recall to this day (I am 50) each of them.

First came the interminable discussion when my Father got home of the particulars of the offense, more discussion on the gravity of the offense, more discussion on the appropriate penalty. There were times I wished the old man would just come home and backhand me against the nearest wall, as did happen to one of my friends. Before it was all done, I was ready to go get the pingpong paddle so the old folk would give me the swats, shut the hell up and get it over with.

My point is, what I received was much closer to the due process meted out by our courts than any example that "violence is OK".

Children are different, where one needs but a gentle remonstrance, the next will respond to little short of torture. Being one of the latter, I am glad my parents had the sense, not to mention the legal freedom,to discipline me appropriately. It probably saved me from being married to "Bubba" in a correctional institution for an indeterminate sentence in later life.