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Bush's quiet green light on Iraq [Have Americans 'gone' Dovish on Iraq?]
Christian Science Monitor ^ | Monday, August 26, 2002 | By Godfrey Sperling

Posted on 08/26/2002 3:10:20 PM PDT by JohnHuang2

Edited on 08/26/2002 3:23:52 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

WASHINGTON - Since Sept. 11, we've been in a war with global dimensions. It's really World War III. Yet I've not seen it described as such. Indeed, even as the president reorganizes the government to cope better with the terrorist threat, and as he indicates he's considering an attack against Iraq, the public is going about life in a near business-as-usual manner. Continues.

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Have Americans 'gone' Dovish on Iraq?

To hear the liberal media tell it, public support for U.S. military action in Iraq has all but collapsed. As public 'debate' in recent weeks intensified -- debate involving the costs, the benefits, the risks/rewards of ousting Saddam -- Americans are getting a severe case of 'cold feet', says the media.

Anti-war sentiment is on the rise, the peaceniks are on a roll, White House opponents are driving the debate, public resolve is in a free-fall, or so we're told.

"The polls coming out this week show that ... public support [for attacking Iraq] is dwindling", declared former Clinton strategist George Stephanopoulos Sunday on ABCNEWS' This Week, a show he now hosts.

"I think what we're seeing is the public reacting to the debate", said co-host Cokie Roberts, sporting a big smile, as if to say, 'hey, Georgie, we're winning this! The war-hawks are licking the dust! Yippee! Yippee!'.

Democrats, believing the media hype, increasingly parrot the anti-war line, or straddle the fence. "The American people are split right down the middle", Sen. Bill moist-finger-in-the-wind Nelson told CNN's Late Edition yesterday. In town hall meetings he's hosted, the "moms of this country ... want to know why their sons and daughters are going to be sent into battle."

Foreign policy by town hall, eh? This doofus must think Der Shlickmeister's still in the White House.

Even Sen. Joseph Lieberman, supposedly a 'strong' backer of military action, flashed his true colors on Friday, accusing the White House of failing to provide enough public evidence to warrant going to war.

"I think members of Congress are going to come back demanding more information", he told editors at the Journal-Inquirer of Manchester.

Without more "up-to-date evidence" on the status of Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction programs, he would not vote in favor of military action, he 'explained'.

Folks, aren't you glad this fickle, waffling, trembling, blow-with-the-wind pathetic political chameleon isn't in charge?

Told that public support for war has plummeted, former U.S. Defense Secretary Casper Weinberger, also on Late Edition, seemed puzzled, given that polls only days ago showed just the opposite, with strong majorities -- 69% or more -- supporting the use of force against Saddam.

Well, it just so happens that Sec. Weinberger is right -- right on the money, in fact.

At Pollingreport.com, under the heading In the News, you'll find an ABC News/Washington Post poll showing 69% in favor of "U.S. forces take[ing] military action against Iraq to force Saddam Hussein from power." Only 22% opposed the use of force. The survey, conducted August 7-11, 2002, had a margin of sampling error of +/- 3%.

Scrolling down further, a CBS News poll pegged support for military action at 66%, with only 26% opposed. The survey was conducted August 6-7, 2002, and had a MOE (margin of error) of +/- 3%.

Still further down the page, a Fox News/Opinion Dynamics poll, conducted August 6-7, posted similar results, with 69% in favor of military action, and 22% opposed. The MOE in this survey was also +/- 3%.

Nor have the numbers noticeably changed over the months, either.

An April poll by Princeton Survey Research Associates, conducted for Newsweek, showed 68% supporting military action, 24% opposed.

Back in January, 71% supported the use of force, according to an ABC News/Washington Post poll. Twenty-four percent opposed.

Again, not much difference.

So, what's going on here? Where's the much-ballyhooed "drop" in support?

A new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll last week sent shock waves across Washington, and sparked a barrage of news reports claiming a sea-change in public attitudes.

"The most recent CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll", writes David W. Moore of the Gallup News Service, "finds that the public is more conflicted now over" the use of force in Iraq, as compared to immediately after 9/11.

"A bare majority of Americans, 53%, say they would favor sending American ground troops to the Persian Gulf area in an attempt to remove Hussein from power, while 41% say they would oppose such action", he writes.

He adds that "by this past June, support had fallen to the 61% level, and opposition had risen to 31%."

So, support over the summer has dropped from 61% to 53%, right?

Er, not so fast.

From the archives at Pollingreport.com, the June survey results are posted as follows:

Would you favor or oppose sending American troops back to the Persian Gulf in order to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq?

59% favor, 34% oppose.

This poll was conducted by Gallup June 17-19, 2002, and has a margin of sampling error of +/- 3.

So, rather than "falling" 8 percentage points, from 61% down to 53%, support for sending troops to the Persian Gulf is down only slightly, 6% percentage points over the period, from 59% to 53%, barely outside the survey's margin of error. Hardly what one would call a "sea-change".

But, wait a minute: What about all those other polls showing much higher levels of support for military action -- 69% or higher?

Ah, here we come to the nub of the problem, a difference in semantics, the basis for the glaring discrepancy.

Notice how Gallup -- and Gallup alone -- inserts the word "troops" in their MAIN survey question.

That makes all the difference in the world.

In the aforementioned ABC News/Washington Post poll, the 69% level of support for military action drops a whopping 12% points, to 57%, merely by inserting the word "troops" in the question. The same poll shows 36% would oppose military action.

"Troops" evokes memories of Vietnam, and skews the survey results.

To illustrate, back in March, 67% supported "using military air strikes but no U.S. ground troops" against Iraq, according to Gallup.

But when asked if they favor using "U.S. ground troops to invade Iraq", public support plummets a full 21% percentage points, from 67% to 46%!! The same poll shows a huge 50% would oppose such action.

Again, this survey was taken back in March, when war "fever" was sizzling -- supposedly more "heated" than currently.

So, in the end, all the media brouhaha about plunging support for war on Saddam is based on flawed or fallacious interpretation of polling data -- wishful thinking, not fact.

Incidentally, even last week's much-touted Gallup poll shows a huge media disconnect with the public.

The press pooh-poohs the notion of possible Iraqi involvement in 9/11, yet a majority of the public, 53%, believe Saddam Hussein "was personally involved in the September 11th terrorist attacks". Only 34% think Saddam had no role in 9/11.

The media scoffs at evidence of possible Iraqi support for terrorist groups plotting attacks on the United States, yet no less than 86% believe "Saddam Hussein is involved" in such activities. Only 8% agree with the media.

Moreover, while "experts" debate whether Iraq currently has, or seeks to obtain, Weapons of Mass Destruction or not, a mindboggling 94% think Saddam either has, or is on his way to developing, such weapons of doom. Only 1% say Saddam is "not trying to develop" WMDs.

Anyway, that's...

My two cents...


"JohnHuang2"



TOPICS: Editorial; Front Page News; News/Current Events
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To: Miss Marple
Recall the words of Churchill:

Oh PLEASE. Ms. M. Would Churchill ignore 15 out of 19 Arabian terrorists bombers, Saudi support of Wahabbi, Saudi support of terrorists all over the mid-east and invite them to his home and then try to encite world hatred for the Saudi's next door neighbor instead? Churchill, indeed!

61 posted on 08/26/2002 6:39:07 PM PDT by iconoclast
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To: iconoclast
The key word here is PATIENCE. I do not necessarily hold the Saudis responsible for nut-case citizens. What I do hold them accountable for is how they deal with the situation in their homeland, which has yet to be revealed. I imagine Prince Bandar is going to get an earful tomorrow.
62 posted on 08/26/2002 6:45:53 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: RJCogburn
Right now he has no idea of how much intelligence we have on his operations. He knows we have a general idea, but that is about it. He knows we have troops moving forward, but he doesn't know if we will attack. He may surmise that we will attack, but he doesn't know when.

These are all things that will be revealed as the President speaks to the nation, coincident with the bonbs being dropped. Letting this info out before an attack would allow him to move assets.

63 posted on 08/26/2002 6:51:29 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: meema
Every time this govt opens it's mouth about sadim and iraq, I get the shudders. I don't believe any of these so-called reasons are true, or from reliable sources.

I'm all for creating a Pax Americana. I want Saddam taken out and the mideast fixed once and for all. Our Navy setting up base on off the coast of Nigeria is a good move. So is the ring of bases we are building in the former Soviet Union, Qatar, Oman and Bahrain.

However, I agree with you on the reasons being wrong. This should be done for America, not Israel. 9/11 gave Israel the idea that it could run US foreign policy. No matter how many times Israelis say it, our war is not Israel's war.

This election is turning into an AIPAC election. 4 African American congressmen targeted by AIPAC. And now AIPAC is going after Sununu (Netanyahu, who said on TV the other night he would never try to interfer in US affairs, is raising money for Smith..who, by the way will lose if nominated).

I suspect much of the weakening of support for action is because of the over-reaching by Israel. America supports Israel. But Americans do not want to be pushed around by Israel and certainly do not want Israel telling us when and where to use American troops. Big mistake because our actions will benefit Israel.No mother or father wants their kid to be shipped overseas to fight because AIPAC bought congress or Bibi Netanyahu wants them to fight.

In addition, Israel is a dangerous ally. Criminals such as Marc Rich, Grigori Loutchansky, Arkadi Gaydamak,Semyon Yukovich Mogilevich and hundreds more use Israel as a safe haven. These people have looted entire continents and Israel refuses to act against them. There is little doubt these criminals will seek to profit from our war. I want them and Israel keep as far away from American troops as possible. No American should die so Marc Rich can make another hundred million dollars.

64 posted on 08/26/2002 6:53:09 PM PDT by LarryLied
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To: JohnHuang2
Whether the polls favor it or not, it ain't gonna happen. GW has vacillated too long waiting for approval. I was hoping he would use the momentum after 9/11 to round up all illegals, close the borders, and secure the territory. Now, the best thing to do is to position our pieces like a chess match, wait for the next attack (because, it is coming), and do what needs to be done. Whether we hit the exact correct target or not, the terrorists need to fear us. After 8 years of limp-wristed slick willy, I don't think they believe we are a force with which to be contended.
65 posted on 08/26/2002 7:15:04 PM PDT by hoosierskypilot
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To: Miss Marple
Miss Marple, How can I say it any better? WELL SAID!!!
66 posted on 08/26/2002 7:25:22 PM PDT by jonboy
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To: RJCogburn
"Either you're with us or against us" is good enough for me.
67 posted on 08/26/2002 7:32:12 PM PDT by prov1813man
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To: prov1813man
The very idea that Bush is using pollsto make decisions on this most important issue is ludicrous. Yes he is a political man, very saavy, but my take on George Bush is that he loves this country and is doing his duty. My guess is that if he didn't get a second term he would happily retire to his ranch with Laura. He is an unlikely man to want a talk show, to chase around the world showing off, to want to get back into the WH at any cost. I think what some don't understand is that he is a grown up man, has character, has real human values, and wants to make the world safe. All the carping of the press, the Europpeans, and some here will not change that. He knows what the rest of us know, he knows what is right here. And carp away, that will not change.
68 posted on 08/26/2002 7:57:28 PM PDT by cajungirl
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To: JohnHuang2
Thank you so much for the insight and analysis! Excellent as always!
69 posted on 08/26/2002 8:15:57 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Miss Marple
Miss Marple, I have enjoyed your well stated posts, especially # 45, #53, and # 58. You have hit the nail on the head so hard I heard it all the way over here in New Jersey!

I too have sons who are draft eligible. I sat them down in 1999 and said to them that I would personally send them to Canada if they were drafted for Kosovo. It is amazing to me that there was no oppositon in the liberal press to Mr. Clinton's abuse of our armed forces and the Yugoslavian civilian population in the Kosovo war. And all of our suddenly yellow Senators and Congressmen kept their mouths shut when we started the Kosovo war without provocation or reason, and ignored those of us who reminded them that after 60 days, Slick Willie once again defied law, under the War Powers Act, by not declaring war or removing the troops absent that, as he was bound to do.

After Sept. 11th, 2001, and losing three people on the ground and in the air, I sat my sons down again and told them that there are things were fighting for and things worth dying for. Our country is one of them,it was attacked, and if they were drafted for a war to defend this country, my expectation was that they should do go and do their duty with all their heart. I told them that if the US would take me in their place, I would gladly go, and still would.

Kosovo was an abomination, and everyone kept their mouths shut; Saddam Hussein is a madman who should have been removed in 1991 from power, and now all of this chicken livered voices are demanding "proof".

Well, I'm not waiting for the second terrorist attack on American soil. Take out Hussein, and tell Iran, Syria, North Korea and Saudi Arabia, that their fate hangs in the balance if they don't round up the terrorists. Enough pussyfooting around! And if the Europeans won't help us, the hell with them. Afterwards, if they don't help, I'd tell 'em to get lost. The world doesn't like us, fine. But we have to do what is right for us. And what's right for us it to take out Hussein. Sooner, and not later. Handwringing time is long over.

70 posted on 08/26/2002 8:51:48 PM PDT by exit82
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To: exit82
Thanks for your comment. I agree 100%!
71 posted on 08/26/2002 8:59:10 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: JohnHuang2
bump for later read.....
72 posted on 08/26/2002 9:55:42 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: JohnHuang2

Anti-war sentiment is on the rise, the peaceniks are on a roll, White House opponents are driving the debate, public resolve is in a free-fall, or so we're told.

< snip >

Democrats, believing the media hype, increasingly parrot the anti-war line, or straddle the fence. "The American people are split right down the middle", Sen. Bill moist-finger-in-the-wind Nelson told CNN's Late Edition yesterday. In town hall meetings he's hosted, the "moms of this country ... want to know why their sons and daughters are going to be sent into battle."



73 posted on 08/27/2002 4:23:51 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: JohnHuang2
Excellent job again, JH2!
74 posted on 08/27/2002 4:24:45 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: All

_____________________________




Rummy, you tell the Brits to keep sifting the dirt for Osama. Next up? SADdam !
Let's get him!

75 posted on 08/27/2002 4:58:04 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
I can't understand why American technology can't be used to take out Saddam and his retinue, rather than a full ground invasion.

The assumption is that what is being planned is a "full ground invasion", like 91. It may not be anything like that.

76 posted on 08/27/2002 6:04:00 AM PDT by Valin
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To: rwfromkansas
"It will still be 75% against it there. I don't really care what anybody thinks though. The rest of the world is so messed up their opinions don't matter to me."

Bingo. And, bump...

77 posted on 08/27/2002 7:12:03 AM PDT by redhead
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To: RobFromGa
OK, Rob! Great answer.
78 posted on 08/27/2002 7:48:57 AM PDT by Marysecretary
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To: lexington minuteman 1775
I believe other countries will pull in with us, including middle east countries who consider Iraq a real threat. They don't want to come right out and cheer us on right now, but I'm willing to bet they will once we do it. I hope Bush is really praying about going in and when. God has a timetable he needs to consider. We may not have to go in if God works it all out in HIS way, not ours. You never know what can happen with Iraq's own people who want to get rid of Sad-damn. That's what I'm hoping for--his own people will get him and we won't have to lift a finger.
79 posted on 08/27/2002 7:53:52 AM PDT by Marysecretary
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To: RobFromGa
C'mon, Rob. Tell us how you REALLY feel about Clinton...
80 posted on 08/27/2002 7:54:55 AM PDT by Marysecretary
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