AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS? (a question for Freepers)

August 22nd, 2002 | Sabertooth

[Sabertooth]

This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.

One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.

Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.

I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.

Fair enough?

So, once again, here's the question:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

[raybbr]

Since he never talks about amnesty for anyone else but hispanics then I should presume that that is your stand as well.

[VA Advogado]

Since he never talks about amnesty for anyone else but hispanics then I should presume that that is your stand as well.

To the best of my knowledge, the legislation the President supports and which has been held up by Robert KKK Byrd, does not single out our hispanic brothers and sisters. It applies to all good imigrants that arrive in this country and want to work and contribute to this wonderful country.

[PsyOp]

"Did you know the Feds are currently holding an Naval Reservist from San Diego who is conected to Al Qaeda?"

Yes. It doesn't change mind either. If you are willing to take the oath and take up arms to defend the country and the constitution, that is good enough for me. BTW what about McVeigh and the long and distinguished list of American born and bred spys and subversives that had been in the Military? You can never account for everyone.

The fact that he is being held means that the system worked well enough to catch him once he joined. Now, he gets to do his time in Leavenworth if convicted - not some state or federal day spa.

[raybbr]

Sheesh! Once again your response is meaningless. Are you capable of thinking for yourself?

[VA Advogado]

Sheesh! Once again your response is meaningless. Are you capable of thinking for yourself?

What part of my well articulated reply did you struggle with?

[Sabertooth]

On the one hand you have those of us who would prefer a more open immigration policy for North America, and on the other side of the debate you have those who blatantly state that white Europeans are preferable. This isn't about immigration, it's about the ethnic makeup of America. One side is comfortable with a growing non-white population, and the other is utterlly appalled.

I think it's a lot more complicated than that. For a long time America lived and breathed the concept of the melting-pot, but now that trend faces a counter-force in multiculturalism. Despite surface similarities, the melting-pot model looks to the future and nurtures the inclusion of new immigrants, while multiculturalism looks to the past and inhibits their assimilation.

I believe that assimilation is the key to a successful immigration policy. American culture shares many common roots with the Judaeo-Christian, Greco-Roman culture of Europe. People of those cultures are going to be more easily assimilated than people from other cultures, with many graduations along the scale. Europeans tend to be Caucasian, but there are plenty of exceptions. A Black Englishman is going to assimilate more easily than a White Albanian, or a someone from Tokyo more quickly than a tribesman from the highlands of Borneo.

All of that said, despite multicultural forces, I think that the assimilative attraction of America for new immigrants is high, simply not to be taken for granted. I think speaking English is a key to assimilation, and to the extent that is retarded by multicultural policies, I believe America and the new immigrants are done a disservice.

In the past year I've also come to the conclusion that one particular culture, Islam, is intrinsically hostile to ours, and that America ought to adopt a policy of studied wariness to immigration from Moslem nations.

As to the question of whether or not some are appalled with a "growing non-white population," again, I think there are complex undercurrents. Speaking for myself, my own daughter is Eurasian, so I'm clearly comfortable with the intermingling of ethnicities, including my own. I can't say as I spend much time polishing any white identity.

At the same time, I do perceive an anti-white, anti-European, "pro-diversity" element to many of our current immigration policies and in the sentiments of many "immigration advocates," and such sentiments and policies have been universally destructive whenever they've been implemented. Look at school busing, or affirmative action, to name just two examples. I don't think it should be government policy to either promote or inhibit a "growing non-white population." Government should be color-blind in its policies, and if America becomes less or more white because of the private decisions of individuals, who cares?

If I was setting up guidelines for immigration policy, I'd give priority to immigrant applicants on the basis of language, culture, and geography, as I believe these are the best indicators of rapid and easy assimilation. English speakers, whether as a first or second language, would have priority over non-English speakers. Candidates from Judaeo-Christian, Greco-Roman cultures would have priority over those who aren't. And candidates from North America and Europe would have priority, as America has the most in common with the people of those continents. Just to clarify, by North America I mean that stretch from Panama to Canada. Education level and financial resources also ought to be considered.

That's not to say we wouldn't still take in immigrants from all over the world, we would, but we're confronted with a couple of realities... many people want to come here, and we can't possibly take them all. We're forced to pick and choose, and that means establishing criteria. Any selectivity means someone's going to be disappointed, but that's life.

At the same time, through appropriate public and private initiative, we ought to foster those elements in any country around the world that would lead them to grow to be more like America, thereby allowing their own citizens to enjoy the same freedoms and living standards that we do.

[Sabertooth]

We need more illegal aliens. Bring in the whole worlds population until the US starts sinking in the sea

But would you grant them Amnesty before the tide rolled in?

[Sabertooth]

BTW, I'm not even sure if Illegals can be in the military. I know legal immigrants can (after a certain amount of residence?), and that Illegals have to register with Selective Service, but I don't know if Illegals can actually serve.

I'm flagging a few folks who might know.

[Sabertooth]

Here is the running tally of the informal "Amnesty for Illegal Aliens?" poll through post #850…

1. Support blanket Amnesty - 2. Support partial Amnesty - 3. Support no Amnesty - 4. Did not state -

1 10 179 13

You may notice that the tally for "Did not state" has declined since the last update. A few folks clarified their positions, thus the change.

I'll update this periodically. If you've not offered an opinion yet, please feel free to do so. Or if you know people who haven't, feel free to flag them here.

Thanks.

[Askel5]

No amnesty.

[Gritty]

No amnesty for illegal aliens.

Period.

[PhiKapMom]

I not only oppose any amnesty for all illegals, I oppose making a baby an American citizen if their parent sneaks across the border to have the child born in an American hospital or if they are here illegally and have a child born on American soil.

If one of my three children had been born in another county, I would not have expected that child to have anything but an American citizenship. Likewise I don't expect non-American citizens that have children born in American hospitals here in the States to have their babies be given American citizenship. This is not the 1700 or 1800's. This is the 21st Century!

That is a real pet peeve of mine!

[madfly]

Thanks for the update and this important thread that tells the story for the overwhelming majority of Freepers on this issue.

[Howie]

I don't want one but we will get one, W made up his mind even before he ran for president. It will happen, why I don't know.

[dennisw]

BTW, I'm not even sure if Illegals can be in the military. I know legal immigrants can (after a certain amount of residence?), and that Illegals have to register with Selective Service, but I don't know if Illegals can actually serve. 


They cannot serve. But under Clinton one of the Army biggies (who happened to be Hispanic American) floated a trial balloon in 1999. His idea was serve in the Army and you can become a US citizen...

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=illegal+aliens+serve+military&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=81m6d5%24dnr%241%40nnrp1.deja.com&rnum=2

 

[Carry_Okie]

It applies to all good imigrants that arrive in this country and want to work and contribute to this wonderful country.

VA, yours is a false premise and characterization:

Many who crash the border are not good, nor do they come here to work and build this country. The composition of those crashing the US/Mexican border has a statistically large fraction of drug smugglers, violent felons, and aspiring welfare recipients. How are we to distinguish which is which without border control? Is it not our right to prevent criminals from entering the nation?

If that is our right, how do you propose to screen those who cross the border without restricting their ingress? If that is our right, how do you propose to screen those who are already here? Amnesty? It is obvious that you have no such intent.

The opinions of those who crash the border are also instructive. A majority believe that the Southwestern US rightly belongs to Mexico. They are therefore hostile agents of a foreign government. Why do you then believe that they should be offered amnesty unless you see an advantage to yourself thereby? How would such advantage be gained other than by violating the rights of current residents of that region?

Here therefore you betray your tacit intent: to personally profit by political power at the expense of the rest of us. Your argument is indeed a racist Trojan Horse in the purest sense and deserves the contempt for its dishonesty it so richly deserves.

[mhking]

What if Osama had sent John Walker Lind home to enlist in the Marines?

Whoa! That sent the 'pucker factor meter' up a few notches...

[mhking]

Because whether someone broke into my house, or broke into my country - they are criminals.

I like that analogy - I've gotta remember that one!

[Sabertooth]

I like that analogy - I've gotta remember that one!

A good question for pro-Amnesty folks, "Do you lock the doors to your house? Why?"

Runner up, "I need a better life for myself, can I have your car?"

[Tuco-bad]

Thanks for the info.