Posted on 08/10/2002 6:59:42 AM PDT by Mr. Mulliner
Isaiah 40:31 -
They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength;
they shall mount up with wings as eagles,
they shall run and not be weary;
and they shall walk and not faint.
I have this verse framed, above my work station...
God didn't 'explicitly direct' Satan.
Satan appeared before God and God offered up his servant Job as an example of a righteous man. Satan scoffed and claimed that Job was righteous only because God had blessed him with health, wealth and so on. Satan challenged God by stating that if God removed His protection from Job and allowed Satan to bring Job grief, Job would curse God. Satan contended that Job's faith and righteousness were based on his material comfort.
God then allowed Satan to smite Job but not to take his life. When Job lost all of his material possessions and did not curse (blame) God, Satan claimed - to God - that if Job was physically afflicted, he would abandon his faith in God. Job was and Job didn't. I think we all know the rest of the story of Job.
God is in control and knows what will happen. He knew before Satan ever came to Him that Job would not blame Him for his troubles but God did later condemn Job's complaints as well as Job's friends lack of faith.
Men are constantly presented with the choice of doing right or wrong. Most of us choose wrong, which is why we need a savior. God knows who will do what. Mr. Atta could have decided to abandon his mission of death on September 11th but God knew he would not. He allowed the mission to go forward, having another plan for the thousands of soon-to-be-dead occupants and rescuers. God has numbered the hairs on our head - He certainly knows when we will die and how we will die.
I do not believe that we are simply robots, pre-programmed by God. We can make choices and God has a plan for each of us. When we falter, He can pick us up and set us straight. We will follow His plan if we follow His will. Those outside of Christ do not know His will and do not care. They choose evil. God uses them in His own way to manifest His will, His plan. They could reject sin - evil - but will not and God knows this, after all, He created them and He knows the number of hairs on their heads, too.
Many people have taken the later airline flight or missed a flight, only to find that the flight they were scheduled to take has crashed and everyone aboard is dead. God did not want that 'lucky' passenger to die but He did plan for the crashed plane passengers to perish at that time. Mere mortals cannot understand this, it's God's plan, not ours.
Good people die every day, seemingly for senseless reasons. Murdered, cancer, car accidents. God's plan in action. It's impossible to prove a negative so we cannot ever know how many people do foolish things and live or have 'close ones' that could have killed them, but doesn't. Cancer tumors disappear without medical explanation. Accidents are avoided by inches. The criminal picks someone else to rape, rob and murder that night. God's plan in action again but invisible to us. We may never know how close we came to death at any given time but God knows. He is in control.
While I count you a friend, you make it very hard for me to be a good Presbyterian! ;-)
My little grandson (will be 4 in October) loves the veggie tales.
I appreciate what you related about the song that says, "God is a god of second chances!"
How comforting that is ~ ~ ~ !!
(Hello, Jim. I enjoyed your replies, and am glad to see you again.)
So....are there certain people who are predestined in God's world to go to hell?
Of course! But in man's world they have a choice.
I think it would be unsupportable by the Holy Bible to say that God does not ever give permission for evil to manifest itself.
If that were the case, we wouldn't have needed Jesus in the first place.
Jesus is our Shield so that God can look upon us and see no evil. If there were no evil to see, we wouldn't need the Shield.
These are my thoughts, we have a choice, but God in His wisdom knows what will happen. See Presbyterians were right all along .... well except that pro abortion bunch! ;-)
Subsequently, Job does not attribute his fate to Satan saying: "The LORD gives and Satan hath taken away" but says: "...the LORD hath taken away". Scripture then affirms Job's testimony: "In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly". I don't think we're simple robots either. We're unfathomably complex robots :-) created in the image of the omnipotent Creator. Our choices are not made in a vacuum but are determined at the confluence of innumerable secondary causes most of which we are not even conscious. I have taken the Lord's name in vain. I did not do so with malice aforethought, but in exclamation of pain or frustration. I committed this sin because of my depraved nature and not by a deliberative choice. I think that many people justify themselves by virtue of the fact that they are not aware of any particularly diabolical motives in their lives. This state of mind is the most powerful detriment to evangalism: "I'm living a good life, I don't choose to hate anybody"
I vehemently disagree with your statement: "Good people die every day". By my reckoning, one good person died only once.
We already know that God is in control of all. How that control is manifested through human beings doing good and ill and how our choices are made is the source of much debate but yes, it's mostly quite unknowable to mortal minds, that's generally understood by most, as I stated earlier.
Of course we are all sinners (Jesus called mankind "evil") and no one is good, as God would define the term. As the Apostle John stated; All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. This is why we need a Savior. However, I used the word in a casual, secular sense. While Mohammad Atta was evil and his act was evil, Todd Beamer was considered 'good' and his act of heroism was certainly considered 'good', although in God's eyes, Tood was as much a sinner as you and I. Understood.
We have to be careful to not mix the bibical and secular definitions up when discussing these matters. I did, and I apologize. No need to become vehement over it.
I've been doin' good. I decided to go back to college and I'm fast tracking it through an expedited year-round program. Keeps me very busy on top of all the other stuff.
How's it with you? I miss seeing your posts around here.
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