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To: Theophilus
Well, if we must nit-pick, I'll state that God didn't explicitly instruct Satan to do anything to Job in the first instance, He lifted His protection from Job. God knew what Satan would then do to Job, of course. Granted, Satan couldn't have done it if God did not lift His protection from Job. Is that what you're saying? Then we agree.

We already know that God is in control of all. How that control is manifested through human beings doing good and ill and how our choices are made is the source of much debate but yes, it's mostly quite unknowable to mortal minds, that's generally understood by most, as I stated earlier.

Of course we are all sinners (Jesus called mankind "evil") and no one is good, as God would define the term. As the Apostle John stated; All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. This is why we need a Savior. However, I used the word in a casual, secular sense. While Mohammad Atta was evil and his act was evil, Todd Beamer was considered 'good' and his act of heroism was certainly considered 'good', although in God's eyes, Tood was as much a sinner as you and I. Understood.

We have to be careful to not mix the bibical and secular definitions up when discussing these matters. I did, and I apologize. No need to become vehement over it.

136 posted on 08/12/2002 12:54:18 PM PDT by Jim Scott
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To: Jim Scott
Thanks for being patient with me. I guess you can tell that I'm concerned with semantics. I have problems with "permission" because it implies that God is passive. Yes, God gave Satan permission but he didn't just give Satan permission. I don't like "knew" because it implies that God wasn't causal. God knew what Satan would do but he didn't simply know what Satan was going to do. "Free" does not serve us well if it implies an independence of our will from God's almighty power. We have a will that is free from our animal instincts (which still influence) and can occasionally (all too rarely) resist temptations. All sin is in vain. Satan himself recognizes that he can do nought but react to God saying: "Stretch forth thy hand...". Atta and his fellow conspirators were sacrificial slaves to their own reprobation and not effective rebels against God. They sowed iniquity, reaped vanity and the rod of their anger failed on Flight 93 because God was glorified mightily in the death of Todd Beamer and he is glorified preciously in the life of Todd's lovely wife. I propose that we subdue secular expressions and definitions with the biblical ones as best we can. The knowledge of the Holy is understanding.
140 posted on 08/12/2002 3:06:12 PM PDT by Theophilus
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