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I thought that some of you may have wanted a chance to read and comment on this.
1 posted on 08/03/2002 10:45:35 AM PDT by FreedomFriend
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To: Paulie; TomGuy; Regulator; Reaganwuzthebest; Fish out of Water; Marine Inspector; ChaseR; ...
Ping for a Great Read.
2 posted on 08/03/2002 10:47:33 AM PDT by FreedomFriend
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To: FreedomFriend
Good article, despite the source. A few questions. 1) Is it too late? Isn't this just another step on the same path we've been on for a generation? 2) What does Rockwellian libertarianism really propose to do about immigration? Isn't Rockwellism just a feel-good mishmash of contradictory ideas that aren't intended to be realized? 3) How comes it that Catholic Mexico doesn't represent Aristolelian ideas and Christian ideals? What went wrong?
3 posted on 08/03/2002 10:52:41 AM PDT by x
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To: FreedomFriend
It is almost too late!
4 posted on 08/03/2002 10:53:07 AM PDT by It'salmosttolate
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To: FreedomFriend
Good article, despite the source. A few questions. 1) Is it too late? Isn't this just another step on the same path we've been on for a generation? 2) What does Rockwellian libertarianism really propose to do about immigration? How can one champion free markets on everything else but immigration? Isn't Rockwellism just a feel-good mishmash of contradictory ideas that aren't intended to be realized? 3) How comes it that Catholic Mexico doesn't represent Aristolelian ideas and Christian ideals? What went wrong?
5 posted on 08/03/2002 10:55:00 AM PDT by x
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To: FreedomFriend
I agree, of course. Except it's not cultural suicide (which is bad enough), it's cultural murder. Leftists are not killing their own culture, they're trying to kill ours.
6 posted on 08/03/2002 10:57:21 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: FreedomFriend
It is a good article. We need to consider the consequences of bringing in millions of people who don't choose to change their culture and never wish to assimilate. What kind of politicians will they help elect? Our government encourages this now for some reason.
7 posted on 08/03/2002 10:58:35 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: FreedomFriend
Ping... Good article. I noticed the author lives in the Shenandoah Valley, presumably Virginia's... Having grown up there, I noticed the rapid Latino influx into that area... Always struck me as kind of odd, that that area would be such a popular settling-point.
8 posted on 08/03/2002 11:06:14 AM PDT by maxwell
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To: FreedomFriend
Enforce a strict English only law for government, business and general commerce.

Anyone is free to preserve their language and culture after school, on evenings, on weekends.

Take out the multilingual forms, ballots etc.

Why this is considered 'rightwing' amazes me. But the bilingual lobby is so big and has a powerful constituency, that its going to be very hard to get them out of the way.
Most Mexicans understand the way to get ahead is English, but since they aren't required to, why bother.

And, lastly, CRACK DOWN HARD on the BUSINESSES that hire illegals.

Right, now i'm off to see the Wizard....
9 posted on 08/03/2002 11:07:58 AM PDT by swarthyguy
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To: FreedomFriend
Here is the real link to the article.
11 posted on 08/03/2002 11:10:28 AM PDT by jimkress
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To: FreedomFriend
Points to ponder:

• Amnesty will not stop illegal immigration.
• Yet, amnesties and illegal immigration with both continue into the foreseeable future.
• But, illegal immigrants will not be deported — won't happen.
• And a two language nation (like Canada) may very well evolve here.
• Meanwhile, the growing illegal population grows the underground economy.
• And the underground economy is a drain on the national economy.
• A massive subculture is the last thing we need.
• Presently, most illegals live in poverty.
• And people living in poverty are a big Democrat constituancy.
• Illegals, by definition, are fugitives.
• And more and more fugitives will cause more and more problems.
• Therefore, they will be legalized (via amnesty) and they will become voters.
• They will also become tax payers and many will feel the same way about taxes as you and I do.
• Both Bush, and now Gephardt, are "correct" — because it's going to happen.
• The longer it takes, the better the Democrats like it and the more they benefit.
• Which is unfortunate because many Hispanics are not averse to Republican ideals.
• Wishful thinking is a real bummer.
• How many potential voters are we talking about?
• No party can afford to concede that many votes.
• How are we going to deal with this new reality to the benefit of America?

13 posted on 08/03/2002 11:12:10 AM PDT by Consort
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To: FreedomFriend
A country is a culture. It is not a piece of dirt where people do business. I guess that's why I'm surprised to see something like this on a libertarian website.
14 posted on 08/03/2002 11:21:56 AM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: FreedomFriend
Asolutely First-RateFR Hall of Fame article!!!!

American private enterprises – entire industries, mind you – actually lobby Congress for the right to hire these "illegals" without changing (legalizing) their status. These enterprises will be in for a rude surprise when they discover that the employee who harasses, discriminates, or doesn’t wash his hands, can make them liable for millions of dollars in a class–action suit, while he immediately becomes eligible for all the rights accorded to an American citizen in his defense – and legal aid societies, unions, and professional race-advocates suddenly emerge from the woodwork.

THIS could be the key to stopping this invasion. Use our legal system to make it unprofitable to keep illegals on the payroll. We have millions of lawyers in this country--isn't it safe to say that we have enough Conservative lawyers around to make life very dificult for these illegals?

15 posted on 08/03/2002 11:23:20 AM PDT by Captainpaintball
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To: FreedomFriend
Wow...this has been our arguement "against" letting the people who got here "illegally" stay. Sen. Orrin Hatch was just on FOXNews, stating he has a Bill up, that would allow people who are illegal who have been here 5 years, to be granted citizenship. He tried to explain that it would help them get an education, and there would be less crime.

I believe it was Sean Hannity, who told him he disagreed, and that he was only for those who come here legally.

I wish this guy could have been there to debate the subject, as he seems to be very informed! I think this was a great article. And if people don't think the illegal Mexicans who come here aren't a threat.. take a look at what they and some LEGAL Mexicans are trying to do!!

Go to:

http://aztlan.net/def25.htm

The next one, is from a thread I posted regarding my niece. I had sent out an e-mail alerting people to MEChA, and it is the first e-mail. Then the second is her response.. she is a High School teacher, teaching Spanish. She mentions her "Masters Degree"..and is extremely condescending. Her e-mail will give you a frightening example of our our schools are viewing this subject.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/724831/posts
19 posted on 08/03/2002 11:36:16 AM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: FreedomFriend
One can refer to the mistaken values that this essay correctly exposes as "cultural suicide," or one can equally well denominate it as "racial suicide," "ethnic suicide," "national suicide," or "self-imposed genocide."

The hysterical Leftist attacks on physical anthropology and ethnologists have masked the fact that there is an enormous correlation between culture and ancestry. The reality is that a people's culture reflects the people who created that culture. Human society is not a game of musical chairs; where the chairs determine the characteristics of their occupants.

I do not join those who disparage the character of the typical Mexican. He, as we, has his good points and his bad points. But he, as we, reflects the genetic makeup of his family. That plays a major role in steering his cultural development. Conservatives need to stop being afraid of understanding that a nation is about kith and kin; hereditary lines of descent. Call it race, nation, tribe, or whatever. The terminology is not as important as understanding the concept.

All of Socialism--including the Nazi version, which the Left has tried to picture as an evil based upon a "Master Race" theory--is in fact based upon the idea that man is more plastic than any of the actual evidence would suggest. If man is not plastic, how can Socialist Government, whether Communist, Nazi, Social Democratic or Fabian, improve man by dominating his life, and macro and micro managing his social environment? This idea that man is plastic is the single most important Socialist premise--however they may define it verbally.

But to dispel the idea, you need look no further than the very subject at hand--the Mexican culture and the effect of its infusion into the United States--to illustrate the point. We lump Mexicans; but the reality is that they are not lumpable. They come from some quite distinct pools of inherited traits; and the contrast even after well over four centuries of living under an imposed Spanish cultural medium, including a common religion, language and Government, has done very little towards removing the immense difference in behavioral patterns between the small actual Spannish elite, the huge Mestizo populations, and the remaining purer Indian types--including those lately desperately trying to reassert their own heritage.

It is not a kindness to anyone to pretend that you can simply assimilate people into cultures designed by other people as a reflection of those other people's social traits, and achieve the same happy, congenial society, as that which tends to characterize a prosperous homogeneous society.

There is such a thing as a fusion--it usually takes about 200 years to really work--where compatible types form a new variety of man; but this is not something that you can program--that is assuming there would be some reason why you would want to. Far, far better, that we learn to respect one another for our very differences--often the small, unique characteristics which make life more interesting and rewarding. Reggie White had the right spin on the subject in his speech to the Wisconsin Legislature--the one that was denounced by almost every Leftist in America. But in that mutual respect, there is no argument whatsoever for increasing the Mexican Mestizo contingent in the population of the United States. Indeed, consider the flip side. Do you think, after their Texas experience, the Mexicans would suddenly want to see a sizeable Anglo settlement in another part of Mexico?

This is not intended as a criticism of the article, which is excellent. I am only making an additional point.

One other matter, is this Manion by any chance a descendant of the late, great Dean Clarence Manion, of the Notre Dame Law School, and Conservative leadership fame? I know that some of his children were very active and dedicated Conservatives, but I am not familiar with a Christopher.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

21 posted on 08/03/2002 11:47:58 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: FreedomFriend
Thanks for the ping. Great article. The part about bribery and corruption being a part of life in Mexico is very true. And this is the lifestyle that they are bringing to America.

Briefly stated, the legalization of this illegal alien population amounts to American cultural suicide (because it is done intentionally, rather than by accident) and a political disaster.

How many people have said exactly the same thing on this forum?

28 posted on 08/03/2002 12:59:38 PM PDT by Brownie74
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To: FreedomFriend
How do politicians expect American citizens to obey laws when they say to illegals do whatever you want, we'll reward you with amnesties and other goodies?

There's a very simple answer to the whole problem of illegal immigration, a no-brainer, a third grader could figure it out- enforce the law.

29 posted on 08/03/2002 1:21:28 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: FreedomFriend
Man. Does it cause you to think about everything you always thought anyway? Thanks for the ping, my FreedomFriend. I need to show this to a lot of other folks. I only wonder if knowledge can change anything or if it only lets you see what happened.
33 posted on 08/03/2002 4:01:35 PM PDT by FryingPan101
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To: FreedomFriend
One of the best articles I have read on the subject of illegals. Too bad it won't gain wide circulation, since it deals with one of the great cultural taboos of our time...the illegal alien population explosion.

One earlier poster asked if there are conservative lawyers who might be enlisted to aid in the fight against the illegals. I hope that there are, too; but they will be outnumbered by the (sleazy, lowlife, scummy) immigration lawyers...let's not forget them. An amnesty will be a bonanza for them. They'll charge 2 or 3 thousand for each poor schmuck that wants to apply, for 15 minutes of filling out a form. Quick and easy loot, and it makes the tobacco settlements look petty by comparison.

If the above offends some lawyer that may stumble across this thread, GOOD!

34 posted on 08/03/2002 4:07:08 PM PDT by SR71A
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To: FreedomFriend
English is being displaced by not just Mexicans but those who don't wish to speak english. The EO 13166 is law and applies to hundreds of languages. However SPANISH is the predominant language taking hold in the united states.
39 posted on 08/03/2002 6:40:06 PM PDT by bok
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To: FreedomFriend
I have nothing further to add to this man's article. It is quite simply the precise reason that I am so vehemently against Mexican illegal - and overwhelming legal - "immigration". His explanation of the perceptions of the average illegal who has bribed his way into America are dead on, and I'm sure totally alien to most Americans, who are probably shocked by such a description.

This is the definition of an alien culture, antagonistic to all of our values. The truth of it is here in writing, but it cannot be totally conveyed this way. People have to feel it, hear it, see it, and then be allowed to understand it by contemplation. When they do understand it, they will see it for the lurid chaos, the grim horror that it is. And then they will feel fear, and understand that something like a border fence on the U.S. - Mexico border is simply a wall to keep out the worst virus that could ever infect the United States, and already has: the vicious legacy of 5 centuries of feudal despotism.

Somehow, someway, the ordinary people of Mexico have to rise up against this. But we cannot simply let them stampede in here, running from the horror. That just serves the purposes of the Caudillo's that perpetuate the evil, because it can only end in destroying us, and giving them a foothold here (they already have it, of course..). Think of turning over the government to the Mafia...and then multiply by 10.

I have known many Mexicans who were born and raised here, and are completely assimilated in the egalitarian ideas that were embodied in this country's birth. Assimilation is possible, but only in manageable numbers.

We are far, far past anything approaching "manageable" numbers.

46 posted on 08/03/2002 7:40:16 PM PDT by Regulator
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