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The Conservative - Libertarian Schism: Freedom and Confidence
FreeRepublic ^ | July 31, 2002 | Francis W. Porretto

Posted on 07/31/2002 5:20:31 AM PDT by fporretto

Each abridgement of liberty has been used to justify further ones. Scholars of political systems have noted this repeatedly. The lesson is not lost on those whose agenda is total power. They perpetually strain to wedge the camel's nose into the tent, and not for the nose's sake.

Many a fine person will concede to you that "liberty is all very well in theory," follow that up with "but," and go on from there to tabulate aspects of life that, in his opinion, the voluntary actions of responsible persons interacting in freedom could never cope with. Oftentimes, free men and free markets have coped with his objections in the recent past, whether he knows it or not. You could point this out to him, provide references and footnotes, and still not overcome his resistance, for it does not depend on the specifics he cited.

His reluctance to embrace freedom is frequently based on fear, the power-monger's best friend.

Fantasist Robert Anton Wilson has written: "The State is based on threat." And so it is. After all, the State, no matter how structured, is a parasitic creature. It seizes our wealth and constrains our freedom, gives vague promises of performance in return, and then as often as not fails to deliver. No self-respecting people would tolerate such an institution if it did not regard the alternatives as worse.

The alternatives are seldom discussed in objective, unemotional terms. Sometimes they are worse, by my assessment, but why should you accept my word for it?

Let it be. The typical American, when he opts for State action over freedom, isn't acting on reasoned conviction, but on fear of a negative result. Sometimes the fear, which is frequently backed by a visceral revulsion, is so strong that no amount of counterevidence can dissolve it, including the abject failure of State action.

We've had a number of recent examples of this. To name only two prominent ones:

  1. The welfare reform of 1996, which limited total welfare benefits to healthy adults and imposed work and training requirements for collecting them, is among the most successful social policy enactments of our time. Huge numbers of welfare recipients have left the dole and assumed paying jobs, transforming themselves from dead loads on society to contributors to it. Yet many politicians and those sympathetic to their aims continue to argue that the welfare system must be expanded, liberalized, and made more generous. A good fraction of these are honestly concerned about the possibility that the 1996 restrictions, the first substantial curtailments of State welfarism since the New Deal, are producing privation among Americans unable to care for themselves.
  2. The War On Drugs, whose lineage reaches back to the 1914 Harrison Narcotics Control Act, has consumed tens of billions of dollars, radically diverted the attentions of state and federal law enforcement, exercised a pernicious corrupting influence on police forces, polluted our relations with several other countries, funded an immense underworld whose marketing practices are founded on bloodshed, and abridged the liberty and privacy of law-abiding Americans, but has produced no significant decrease in recreational drug consumption. Yet many Americans will not even consider the possibility that the War On Drugs should be scaled back or terminated altogether. Most resist from the fear that drug use and violence would explode without limit, possibly leading to the dissolution of civil society.

In either of the above cases, could we but take away the fear factor, there would be essentially no argument remaining.

Fear, like pain, can be useful. When it engenders caution, it can prolong life and preserve health. Conservatives in particular appreciate the value of caution. The conservative mindset is innately opposed to radical, destabilizing change, and history has proved such opposition to be wise.

However, a fear that nothing can dispel is a pure detriment to him who suffers it.

Generally, the antidote to fear is knowledge: logically sound arguments grounded in unshakable postulates and well buttressed by practical experience. Once one knows what brings a particular undesirable condition about, one has a chance of changing or averting it. The great challenge is to overcome fears so intense that they preclude a rational examination of the thing feared.

Where mainstream conservatives and libertarians part company is along the disjunction of their fears. The conservative tends to fear that, without State involvement in various social matters, the country and its norms would suffer unacceptably. Areas where such a fear applies include drug use, abortion, international trade, immigration, cultural matters, sexual behavior, and public deportment. The libertarian tends to fear the consequences of State involvement more greatly. He argues to the conservative that non-coercive ways of curbing the things he dislikes, ways that are free of statist hazards, should be investigated first, before turning to the police.

I call myself a libertarian, but I can't discount conservative fears in all cases -- especially where the libertarian approach to some social ill involves a major change to established ways. Radical transformations of society don't have a rosy history.

Yet conservatives, too, could be more realistic, and could show more confidence in the ideals they strive to defend. As Thomas Sowell has written in discussing the War On Drugs, "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damned fool about it."

The past two decades, starting roughly with Ronald Reagan's ascent to national prominence, have laid the foundations for an enduring coalition between freedom-oriented libertarian thinkers and virtue-and-stability-oriented conservative thinkers. Each side needs to learn greater confidence in the other, if we are to establish the serious exchange of ideas and reservations, free of invective and dismissive rhetoric, as an ongoing process. Such confidence must include sufficient humility to allow for respect for the other side's fears -- for an unshakable confidence in one's own rightness is nearly always misplaced. There is little to learn from those who agree with you, whereas much may be learned from those who disagree.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Philosophy; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: conservatism; libertarianism; libertarians
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To: tpaine; Admin Moderator; Roscoe; Texasforever; nopardons

Don't confuse our refusal to reply to your personal attacks as acquiescing to your false charges.

241 posted on 08/04/2002 10:50:14 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: nopardons
One candidate comes quickly to mind.
242 posted on 08/04/2002 10:51:04 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Mark Bahner

Why is a minimum wage law not necessary while a minimum age law is? Either you are laissez-faire or not.

243 posted on 08/04/2002 10:57:17 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: fporretto
"All by yourself, you created more bad will toward libertarians and libertarian thinking at the Ann Coulter Fan Club than a regiment of homosexual drug addicts could have done..."

There are things worse than a regiment of homosexual drug addicts. Like a regiment of Ann Coulters, for example.

Ann Coulter is a disgrace. She's mean-spirited. She lies. She is an absolutely shameless...well, she's shameless in everything, but especially in name-calling.

I assume you know she got kicked out at the National Review? (Probably you think that was THEIR fault.)

So...you think I'm worried about the "damage" I cause among fans of such a woman?

"Milton Friedman is a libertarian, and so am I."

So now you're a libertarian again? Fine.

Mark Bahner (Libertarian)

P.S. Obviously, you are bigoted against homosexuals. There's a lot of that among conservatives...which is one reason I liked it more when you were a "freedom-loving conservative."
244 posted on 08/04/2002 11:04:03 AM PDT by Mark Bahner
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To: Cultural Jihad
It is becoming obvious that the roscoe/tex/cj/np types here at FR have no real interest in the restoration of a constitutional free republic. -- Do You?

Don't confuse our refusal to reply to your personal attacks as acquiescing to your false charges.

The line above is a statement of fact, not a false charge, or a personal attack.

NONE of you have ever shown any interest in the guiding principles of this forum.
Your prime agendas seem to be baiting those who disagree with your views on politics & religion.
I've challenged all of you to say this isn't true at one time or another.
Can't be done, because nearly every one of your baiting/bashing posts proves my point.

245 posted on 08/04/2002 11:25:23 AM PDT by tpaine
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To: Cultural Jihad
Libertarianism without falsehoods would be silence.
246 posted on 08/04/2002 11:28:44 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: tpaine; Cultural Jihad
Your prime agendas seem to be baiting those who disagree with your views on politics & religion.

CJ, let me translate from the master of this subject: Baiting = a synonym for when you well-thought-out comments make me look even more foolish than my own.

247 posted on 08/04/2002 11:36:01 AM PDT by VA Advogado
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To: Roscoe
Libertarianism without falsehoods would be silence.

I suppose if they lie enough about the constitution, it really will contain a statement pointing to why drugs should be legal.

248 posted on 08/04/2002 11:37:07 AM PDT by VA Advogado
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To: wattsmag2
I consider myself to more of a classical liberal than a libertarian. The LP represents my beliefs better than the RP by a long shot.
249 posted on 08/04/2002 11:51:30 AM PDT by dheretic
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To: Roscoe
Libertarianism without falsehoods would be silence.

Christianity without fairy tales wouldn't be a religion.

250 posted on 08/04/2002 11:57:47 AM PDT by dheretic
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To: VA Advogado; Roscoe
"Libertarianism without falsehoods would be silence." -roscoelies-

I suppose if they lie enough about the constitution, it really will contain a statement pointing to why drugs should be legal


Whatta couple-a dopes.

-- 'Drugs' are, and always have been legal under the constitution. In 1914 an unconstitutional legislative 'act' was passed, prohibiting some drugs.
251 posted on 08/04/2002 11:58:37 AM PDT by tpaine
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To: VA Advogado
I suppose if they lie enough about the constitution, it really will contain a statement pointing to why drugs should be legal.

Perhaps you would like to give an exact quotation followed by article and section from the US Constitution that gives it the authority to regulate drugs within state borders. Oh yeah, that article and section wouldn't exist because the federal government has no intrastate commerce regulatory powers unless you consider prosecuting slavery and counterfeiting intrastate commerce. While you're at it, read the 10th amendment. It states clearly and unequivocably that any power not explicitly granted to the US Government is one that the US Government doesn't have. This isn't about morality, it is whether do-gooder hyper-moralist thugs would violate the US Constitution; it is a litmus test for the orthodoxy of your adherence to the US Constitution.

252 posted on 08/04/2002 12:02:17 PM PDT by dheretic
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To: tpaine
In 1914 an unconstitutional legislative 'act' was passed, prohibiting some drugs.

Georgia had a prohibition edict in place in 1733. The Oregon Territory had prohibition in 1843. Maine had a prohibition law in 1846. In the 19th century, New Hampshire, Vermont and Michigan, among others, had prohibition laws on the books.

Libertarianism without falsehoods would be silence.

253 posted on 08/04/2002 12:22:48 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: dheretic; VA Advogado
This isn't about morality, it is whether do-gooder hyper-moralist thugs would violate the US Constitution; it is a litmus test for the orthodoxy of your adherence to the US Constitution.


Well said. - As usual you will get no coherant response from the thugs I flagged earlier, or from VA.
-- In fact, I suspect he was miffed that I didn't include him in that post. He desperately wants to be known as a full member of FR's anti-constitutional mafia.
I doubt they want him.
254 posted on 08/04/2002 12:26:04 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: dheretic
The Congress makes the following findings and declarations:

(1) Many of the drugs included within this title have a useful and legitimate medical purpose and are necessary to maintain the health and general welfare of the American people.

(2) The illegal importation, manufacture, distribution, and possession and improper use of controlled substances have a substantial and detrimental effect on the health and general welfare of the American people.

(3) A major portion of the traffic in controlled substances flows through interstate and foreign commerce. Incidents of the traffic which are not an integral part of the interstate or foreign flow, such as manufacture, local distribution, and possession, nonetheless have a substantial and direct effect upon interstate commerce because--

(A) after manufacture, many controlled substances are transported in interstate commerce,
(B) controlled substances distributed locally usually have been transported in interstate commerce immediately before their distribution, and
(C) controlled substances possessed commonly flow through interstate commerce immediately prior to such possession.

(4) Local distribution and possession of controlled substances contribute to swelling the interstate traffic in such substances.

(5) Controlled substances manufactured and distributed intrastate cannot be differentiated from controlled substances manufactured and distributed interstate. Thus, it is not feasible to distinguish, in terms of controls, between controlled substances manufactured and distributed interstate and controlled substances manufactured and distributed intrastate.

(6) Federal control of the intrastate incidents of the traffic in controlled substances is essential to the effective control of the interstate incidents of such traffic.

(7) The United States is a party to the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, 1961, and other international conventions designed to establish effective control over international and domestic traffic in controlled substances.

255 posted on 08/04/2002 12:29:20 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe; yall
In 1914 an unconstitutional legislative 'act' was passed, prohibiting some drugs. - tpaine


Georgia had a prohibition edict in place in 1733. The Oregon Territory had prohibition in 1843. Maine had a prohibition law in 1846. In the 19th century, New Hampshire, Vermont and Michigan, among others, had prohibition laws on the books.


Yep, and except for 1733, they were all unconstitutional state laws, under the supreme Law of the Land.
--- Then, [exactly because so many states were violating the constitution, - even the 2nd amendment], -- the 14th was ratified, in order to settle the question of 'states rights'. States were told they could NOT deprive "persons of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;".
Guns & drugs are property, prohibitions on them are NOT due process.
--- The public use of property is legally regulated under the criminal law powers granted to states. - States have NEVER been granted the power to prohibit property. [See the 9th/10th amendments]
256 posted on 08/04/2002 12:47:54 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
they were all unconstitutional state laws

Libertarianism without falsehoods would be silence.

257 posted on 08/04/2002 12:49:42 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: VA Advogado
Idaho had laws against smoking opium in 1893.
258 posted on 08/04/2002 12:52:13 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
Those findings & declarations are NOT constitutional law. - They violate the 14th amendment, for only one.
259 posted on 08/04/2002 12:52:28 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: Roscoe
roscoepap
260 posted on 08/04/2002 12:53:08 PM PDT by tpaine
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