Retired Airline Pilot sues NTSB for "Zoom-climb" data

http://www.twa800.com/lahr/lahr-amended.htm ^ | 7/27/02 | John Fiorentino

[JohnFiorentino]

Retired airline Pilot Capt. Ray Lahr has brought suit against the NTSB for release of the data pertaining to the alleged "zoom-climb" by TWA800. NTSB has stated that this event was what the hundreds of witnesses observed prior to the TWA800 explosion.

You can view the amended complaint in it's entirety here:

http://www.twa800.com/lahr/lahr-amended.htm

[Swordmaker]

This means that you have to file a lawsuit within [deleted] years of the date you made your request

You are again obfuscating the issue. Most civil statutes of limitation start ticking their clocks at the time of the injury or of the plaintiff becoming aware of his injury. In a Freedom of Information request the initiating event is not an injury but the failure of a governmental agency to follow the law.

The STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS is satisfied on the FIRST FILING OF A LAWSUIT. Once the filing has been made, the statute of limitations has been met regardless of how long it takes for the suit to wend its way through the court system.

Now, because of defects in the descriptions of the documents Lahr had requested that original request for documents has been voided... and his NEW request, with the corrected information, starts the FOIA statute of limitations running again. It is as though the first request did not occur. If the NTSB complies satisfactorily with his request, then a suit will be unnecessary. If it does not, then Lahr needs only file again.

[FormerLurker]

That's more of the revisionist history trademark of the "shootdown" tinfoil hats. I was a critic of Donaldson for years before his death, one of many.

I've never heard of you prior to this past year. In fact, you didn't register on FR until AFTER Commander Donaldson's untimely death. I could care less what you did on other websites before you came here, you aren't there, you're here. And Commander Donaldson isn't around to defend himself against your vile attacks.

It's one thing to disagree with someone, whether they're alive or deceased. On the other hand, it is a totally different thing altogether to attack someone personally WHEN THEY ARE DEAD. It's bad enough that you do it to the living, but you are a rather twisted soul to smear and ridicule someone who IS DEAD and can't defend themselves against you and your outrageous remarks. It is a sign of a true coward as a matter of fact.

In fact, your comments on the post that I am responding to are SO over the top, SO obscene, I think I'm going to have to hit the abuse button. You speak of revisionism Asmodeus as if it were something someone ELSE other than you is guilty of. If you truly believe that what you've said here is realty, you not only have major issues, but are yourself guilty of exactly what you accuse others of, namely revisionism...

[Rokke]

Sorry John, but posting incorrect information is posting "disinformation" (although I'm really not sure that is a word). It took you until now to admit your information was incorrect. As for my being a disrupter...I didn't even post on this thread for a couple weeks while you and all the other participants posted a series of bandwidth draining, multiple page posts. Thanks for the lecture on the purpose of FreeRepublic. Since you are using it as a personal sounding board for your upcoming book, I can tell you really care about the service it provides. By the way, calling Asmodeus "Assmo" is definitely a violation of FR's rules.

[Asmodeus]

"It's quite apparent to me what Lahr is seeking, and it's also quite apparent NTSB would most likely find it very embarrassing to release, or POSSIBLY even produce."

You're a paralegal. Do any of the lawyers representing those involved in the disaster agree with you?

The NTSB's lawyers?

Boeing's lawyers?

The families' lawyers?

[FormerLurker]

By the way, calling Asmodeus "Assmo" is definitely a violation of FR's rules.

So isn't calling people "tinfoil hats", or calling the deceased Commander Donaldson "bullshitten" Billy Bob. Seems like Asmodeus (a demonic entity by definition) violates a few FR rules too, and shows very little respect for anybody considering that he's purportedly 70+ years old.

Most if not all people of that generation had respect for people, whether they agreed with them or not.

[JohnFiorentino]

As someone who is involved with legal issues on a daily basis, I can say, that most of the debate here is simply a waste of time. (Something Assmo and Rokke are very happy to see)

The point of the whole thing, and the basis of this thread, which I started, is to report on the progress or lack thereof of Capt' Lahr's attempts to pry from the NTSB that which they seem intent on keeping to themselves.

Personally, and this is just an opinion, I doubt there is any data in fact, upon which NTSB or CIA calculated their respective cartoons.

What will they say if ordered to produce this supposed data?

Sorry, we made it all up?

[Rokke]

The question has already been answered. In fact, it was answered 5 years ago. I would show it to you except I live in this mortal terror of being accused by you of being a "Bolshevik". But I guess I should just be greatful you don't send me personal emails.

[FormerLurker]

John, it is obvious that they're keeping the "data" secret because THERE ISN'T ANY. Even a high school student could determine with a few calculations that it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for TWA800 to have gone into ANY sort of "zoom-climb".

Well, perhaps that's the whole problem, where public school kids these days have been SO dumbed down, and are SO intellectually disabled, that they CAN'T do the simple math or see the logical facts behind this. Obviously, MANY Americans bought the story hook, line, and sinker. It is unfortunate that we have become a Nation of unquestioning, unthinking sheep, but alas, that is what most of us have become.

[Rokke]

Sorry boys, I can see this thread is still a schoolyard pissing match. I'll depart once again, and return when Lahr's FOIA request is dismissed again.

[JohnFiorentino]

Posting incorrect information is NOT disinformation. Posting information that one knows is false, with the intent to deceive, certainly is. The fact that I corrected my initial post, I believe speaks for itself. BTW, I don't work for you Rokke, so I hardly need you to define my timelines for responding (or not) to anything. Perhaps posting here is YOUR only activity.....it is surely not mine.

Assmo is just an abbreviation for Asmodeus........according to ME............have a good day.

[Admin Moderator]

Stop the personal attacks now. No more name calling. No more spamming. No more posting of personal freepmails/e-mails. The next abuse made gets a timeout.

[FormerLurker]

Rokke, I want you to show me right here, right now, how it is possible for TWA800 to have climbed at all. Then, once you've convinced me with FACTS, mathematical and scientific, you can demonstrate to all of us how it was possible for TWA800 to climb like the Space Shuttle.

[Asmodeus]

"Personally, and this is just an opinion, I doubt there is any data in fact, upon which NTSB or CIA calculated their respective cartoons."

Let's try it again. You're a paralegal. Do any of the lawyers representing those involved in the disaster agree with you?

The NTSB's lawyers?

Boeing's lawyers?

The families lawyers?

[Swordmaker]

Do any of the lawyers representing those involved in the disaster agree with you?

Asside from the bandwidth waste to repeat your questions time and time again, that particular question is irrelevant.

The NTSB's lawyers are going to argue for the status quo... as they don't want to reveal anything they don't have to.

Boeing's lawyers have taken no position. They are merely observing.

The Families' lawyers would not be interested in information that would tend to exonerate the defendants in their lawsuits... those with deep (and accessible) pockets. It is NOT their responsibility to afix blame to anyone other than the airline and the aircraft manufacturer.

[FormerLurker]

Thanks Admin Mod, I think that needed to be said. There is SO much more to discuss concerning this topic other than resorting to personal attacks. It takes up a lot of bandwidth, and isn't productive in the least.

I myself may have "pushed the envelope", but I have simply tried to state facts. If we can all get back to the discussion without getting personal, perhaps we can finally get to a point where we might decide to agree on something other than swinging away at each other with baseball bats....

One thing that needs to be cleared up though. If a certain individual is claiming expertise in a particular field, then it should be a valid question and a legitimate concern as to whether those claims are in fact TRUE. I do reserve the right to ask for that proof.

[JohnFiorentino]

Your question makes no sense Asmodeus.

It's quite apparent NTSB doesn't want to release (if in fact there is anything to release) the data which Capt Lahr is seeking.

I am not aware of Boeing's "lawyers" opinions......nor the lawyers for the victim families on this precise issue.

[Admin Moderator]

See post 913.