Dad regards pledge case as his 'duty'

The Sacramento Bee ^ | 7/16/2002 | Jennifer Garza

[Utah Girl]

Of all the names he's been called in the past few weeks -- and there have been plenty -- Mike Newdow can't quite understand how someone could call him a bad father. Or a traitor.

Newdow is the Sacramento man who challenged the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance -- and won.

[Let's Roll]

And his actions only show that the courts are right in not awarding him custody.

[Utah Girl]

Amen. He may well have a grievance for custody, I don't know. But to use God and other issues just cloud what is really going on in his custody battle or whatever with his ex-girlfriend. I'd sure like to know the whole history of that relationship, and why they are no longer together...

[dsutah]

Well from the attitude you seem to have, you opened your mouth to insert your foot too, didn't you? We may not know Mr. Newdow, but you don't know Ms. Banning either, in order to call her a fatherhood-hating femi-nazi! For all you know, we all know, he may have threatened her, and the child! There must be a good reason why he is not given custody. We really don't know what their situation is, do we?

[Tired of Taxes]

You're wasting your time, flyervet. These people see the word "atheist" and they go mad. You can tell from their anti-atheist rhetoric on this thread alone, blaming atheism for everything from abortion to child porn, that that is their main reason for hating this guy. They deny that there are atheist war veterans; in fact, there are atheists serving in our military right now - I've spoken with them on other forums - who are sick of the pro-religious rhetoric. They deny that the largest percentage of women who obtain abortions subscribe to a religion. The only thing atheists agree on is that there are no gods; yet, they'll attribute every single wrong in the world to us, even the savage acts of a few fundamentalist nuts who killed thousands on our soil on 9-11. But, none of that matters to them. All that matters is that there are people who do not believe in their faith, whatever that may be. Even Islam gets more respect in this country than atheism. The President (who I voted for but won't be voting for again, that's for sure) has slammed us at every turn since 9-11, and then he turns around and calls Islam the "Religion of Peace". If this were a Christian father and the mother were an atheist, and the father sued to keep his daughter out of evolution classes, they would be supporting him. But since the opposite is true, they don't. It's just that simple.

[flyervet]

According to highschool mama, the mother of Michael Newdow's child moved from Florida to California in order to discourage Michael Newdow from seeing her. My understanding is this is a not uncommon tactic among parents who have no legal basis to deny visitation. In any event, she underestimated Michael Newdow's commitment to his child, as he uprooted his entire life to follow them.

Given the fact that Michael Newdow is an ER MD, a job known for having irregular, crazy hours, it's likely that he didn't sue for custody of his daughter initially. This too is not uncommon among men. However, in the abscence of that knowledge, we must fall back on the fact that Michael Newdow has had visitation and joint physical custody if not sole legal custody, indicating that he has not threatened his child or her mother.

[syriacus]

Is this the same Michael Newdow who co-authored this?  

EMERGEncy ID NET: An Emergency Department Based Emerging Infections Sentinel Network
David A. Talan, Gregory J. Moran, William R. Mower, Michael Newdow, Samuel Ong, Laurence Slutsker, William R. Jarvis, Laura A. Conn, Robert W. Pinner, and EMERGEncy ID NET Study Group

Michael Newdow's from New Jersey?

I wonder if he is connected with the lone, American anthrax suspect the FBI was talking about. The guy who mailed the letter to Daschle had a return address from a New Jersey Elementary school.

What was Newdow doing in 1999, by the way?

Under God" Under Appeal

Physician Michael Newdow of Broward County, Florida, has appealed the dismissal of his 1998 lawsuit seeking to remove "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance and restore its original language dating to 1892. The part-time resident of Fort Lauderdale is suing on behalf of his daughter, 5. U.S. District Judge Ursula Ungaro-Benages dismissed the case because his daughter wasn't yet school-age. Newdow argues that permitting his daughter to sit out the pledge, as provided for by a 1940's Supreme Court case, still subjects her to outsider status and religious dogma in school.

[Tired of Taxes]

According to media reports, Newdow said his daughter was "injured" by the pledge.... "I never said that, and I don't believe it's in the brief," Newdow said.

Apparently, he claims he never said his daughter was an "injured party" and that it's not in the brief. Anyone have a copy of the brief?

Also, he says that he's living off his savings. One might assume that he's paying child support from his savings, too. Obviously, he has saved quite a bit of money in order to afford a four-bedroom house. I'm no lawyer, but if he were lax in child support payments, the mother probably could put a lien against that property. It doesn't sound like that's the case.

Again, you all might disagree with or even dislike him. But that doesn't change the fact that he's the girl's father.

[Utah Girl]

Yes! Same Nednow! He also filed suit before the inaugeration of President Bush, saying that "So Help me God" was the promotion of religion, he's filed suit saying that the prayers at the inaugurations were harmful to him, he's filed suit to get President Bush to stop talking about God and religion in his speeches, he says he is going to file suit to get every mention of God out of the gov't (on the money, in the courts, etc.)

[syriacus]

Michael Newdow is meeting his requirements for child support despite the fact that the mother of his child tried to remove him from his child's life by moving 3,000 miles away

I'd think about moving far away from a guy who is bringing lawsuits for non-existent situations.

Newdow is not only obsessive, he's also out of touch with reality.

Newdow brought the same lawsuit to court in Florida in 1998. The judge threw it out because Newdow's supposedly "harmed" daughter wasn't even school age.

[dsutah]

And what about the women who initially fall for such a man, then regret it? For all we know, she found out he was like this, and was getting radical about it, and it scared her, so she got away with him with the child. He probably didn't seem this way when she met him. I probably would leave too, if I saw a man I once loved get extemely radical about something like he has!

This is how Hitler got started. Lenin, Castro, Stalin, Robespierre, more than likely got started like that, not to leave out Osama Bin Laden. It's not just Mr. Newdow himself, it's the fear that other radicals are waiting in the wings to join him if he should fail.

And no, I don't think he's going along with the views of the founding fathers. They at least respected other people's religion, and wanted to give them all the freedom to worship as they chose, and mention God if they chose. Many of them were Christians and even though they referred to God in a general sense, (the Creator, Providence, etc...) that's who they were talking about!

Anyone who comes in with the attitude of Mr. Newdow, trying to take away the rights of others, and claim the founding fathers views as theirs, and to twist our Constitution around to suit them, needs to be kept in their place. They are out of control, and going over the line! After all, if they succeed in doing this, we will definitely have a tyranny, and people like him wind up being dictators!

You may talk about homeschool mama like she is a feminazi nut, or you may call me a nut, well, so be it! But after all, we do still have a right to free expression, and free speech, as you do. You have a right to your beliefs, or non-belief. But atheists have their own religion too, and they don't have a right to force 'that' religion on others either!

[flyervet]

If Michael Newdow weren't an atheist, he would be lauded as father of the year. The only people who would be arguing the mother's case would be the hard-core NOW types.

They say politics make strange bedfellows, but in this case, it seems to be religion.

[syriacus]

You can tell from their anti-atheist rhetoric on this thread alone, blaming atheism for everything from abortion to child porn, that that is their main reason for hating this guy.

I dislike men who lie about their children under oath. Newdow lied in Florida in 1998 when he first brought the case and he lied again more recently.

Bring on a father who doesn't lie about his daughter under oath and I might listen.

[dsutah]

I know, I can't believe someone could be so insulting, they wouldn't be like that if their freedoms could be taken away by such people. If you're off your meds, I must be too! I told him/her that if I'm a nut, and your a nut, so be it! It's a free country after all. ;) But I wonder who will be around to stick up for the flyervet, when tyrants like Newdow should ever take over!

[flyervet]

Get real. Lots of women have children that are fathered by men they later realize they don't particularly like. That doesn't mean they can deprive the fathers of their children.

Regardless of how you feel about Michael Newdow personally, you have to admit that most men wouldn't uproot their entire lives to be closer to their children and most men wouldn't meekly pay nearly double their salary in child support. Michael Newdow, whatever else he may or may not be, is doing his best to be a good father under circumstances that would try the best of men.

[Howlin]

I do wish to point out yet again that the daughter was present at the oral arguments in San Francisco.

Do you think she drove herself there?

[syriacus]

Since Newdow is a minister of Atheism, isn't he forcing his religious beliefs (there is no God) on other Americans?

Excerpt from One Nation, Divisible Under God

Newdow says his pledge fight -- unlike AU's strategic battles -- is essentially personal. The act of 1954 infringes on his own religious freedom, he claims. He's a minister of atheism, ordained by the Universal Life Church, a controversial California entity that has ordained millions of ministers of all stripes and beliefs at the mere asking. Newdow says he'll be opening his church, the First Amendment Church of True Science (FACTS), soon, likely on the Internet. Atheists, he argues, shouldn't have to pledge to a God in whom they don't believe. He compares his refusal to that expected of Christians, who would surely refuse to pledge allegiance to "one nation under Allah."

[flyervet]

No, of course not. But given the distance from Sacramento to San Francisco, and the sheer enormity of the event, the mother simply can't be telling the truth when she claims that she didn't know about the lawsuit before the 9th Circuit Court announced their decision. Either she knew where the child was going before she let her leave with her father or she knew about it after the girl returned. After all, what eight year-old would go through a four-hour round-trip car ride and an appearance in a very imposing court of law without gabbing about it at length?

[syriacus]

Michael Newdow, whatever else he may or may not be, is doing his best to be a good father under circumstances that would try the best of men.

Sounds more like he's angry his daughter doesn't belong to his church.

Newdow, a part-time resident of Fort Lauderdale, also argues that his five-year-old daughter, whom he's raising to be an atheist like himself, shouldn't be subjected to the pledge every morning. It will only make her feel like an "outsider," he says, and the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that the government cannot endorse religious belief precisely because such an endorsement alienates nonbelievers.

"At age five," he writes in his appeal, "this harm is especially acute, since she will be unable to… deal with its consequences."

He's a minister of atheism, ordained by the Universal Life Church, a controversial California entity that has ordained millions of ministers of all stripes and beliefs at the mere asking. Newdow says he'll be opening his church, the First Amendment Church of True Science (FACTS), soon, likely on the Internet.

[Irene Adler]

"Newdow is an emergency-room physician with a law degree, but he says he made only $15,000 last year."

Then the guy's a bum. The very few people I am aware of who have both law and medical degrees make millions a year as malpractice attorneys.

[syriacus]

Looks like those of us who thought he is more than slightly obsessive aren't too far off the mark. From One Nation, Under ... Who?

....Newdow, it seems, is a born incendiary. In an interview with NEWSWEEK, his parents recalled a child obsessed with precision in word and action. As a toddler, he insisted on putting his stroller away in a precise spot in the basement of their Bronx apartment. At dinner, he would inquire about the meaning of a word, and ask that his parents stop the meal to check the dictionary. He skipped the second grade, but refused to take one of the first tests administered in his new class. He said the instructions couldn’t be followed precisely. His parents were nonpracticing Jews. “We never disparaged God,” said Rosalyn Newdow. “We just never talked about it.” He recalled only one discussion about religion: in which his son asked him to explain the difference between atheism and agnosticism.