Hispanics praise new citizenship policy for military

The Houston Chronicle ^ | July 5, 2002, 11:59PM | Edward Hegstrom

[ppaul]

A Matter of Faith: Islam is Fastest-Growing Religion in the U.S.

Abdullah Yusuf, center, prays at the Masjid As-Salam in Sacramento
on Friday. Yusuf says he was raised Catholic but converted to Islam
because he liked the teachings of the Qur'an.

Latino Muslims

In April, California State University, Sacramento, hosted a forum on the "Islamic Presence in Latin America" before and after Columbus. One of the speakers, Salvadoran-born AbdulHadi Bazurto (President of Latin American Muslim Unity), said the more he examined his roots, the more he questioned the validity of Catholicism in his life. "Since the day the Spanish arrived, we as people have suffered a lot," he said. "Christianity's 'white God' concept was harmful to our people, who were definitely not white."

Another speaker, Daniel Denton, a Stockton elementary school teacher who was born in Mexico, said he was a hard-drinking veteran of the Gulf War when he began to explore Islam in 1994. At the invitation of Muslims at Delta College, he went to a mosque. "There was a carpet on the floor, and the walls were bare. I wondered, 'Where is everything?' and then I realized that was everything. If you go to a Catholic church, every few feet they have an image or a statue, but in Islam, there is no association between God and any image."

Denton also was impressed by the Islamic belief that each individual will be judged by their deeds on Judgment Day. That night, he took the shahada, the Muslim vow that says "There is only one God, Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger."

When he started fasting for Ramadan, "I heard my relatives in Stockton were calling my mom in San Diego and telling her I had become a terrorist and was doing drugs," Denton said. "When I went down to San Diego toward the end of Ramadan, I had lost 15 pounds and was starting to grow my beard. My mom was just in tears for days."

But, Denton said, his mother soon realized that instead of partying, he was staying home and talking to her as he had never done before.

"As she began to see the change, she came to accept it, and now she's happy. There's a saying in Islam that goes, 'Heaven lies at the feet of the mother. You have to treat her well at all times, take care of her.' "

Denton, 29, sees similarities between Islamic and Latino culture. "I've noticed that if you take away the crosses, the alcohol and the pork, the smells in my house are similar to Muslim homes. So is the behavior -- the respect for family."

Link to article HERE.

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California State University, Sacramento, hosted a forum on the "Islamic Presence in Latin America" before and after Columbus. One of the speakers, Salvadoran-born AbdulHadi Bazurto (President of Latin American Muslim Unity), said the more he examined his roots, the more he questioned the validity of Catholicism in his life. "Since the day the Spanish arrived, we as people have suffered a lot," he said. "Christianity's 'white God' concept was harmful to our people, who were definitely not white."

Our tax dollars at work.

[ppaul]

Thanks.

[Illbay]

IMO, even you see things through an anti-immigration prism that makes you look at things differently, and perhaps less objectively.

The thing that bothers me the most about it is that these people don't even bother to read history. If they did, they'd begin to recognize that the SAME THINGS they're saying today about immigration, was said even decades before the U.S. was born (c.f. Ben Franklin's diatribes in Poor Richard about the danger of these German immigrants who wouldn't assimilate, had a different culture, etc. That was in the 1740s!)

We've always had immigrants and we always WILL have immigrants. The question ought not be "no immigration" but rather "no ILLEGAL immigration". The first is not now nor has it ever been a problem.

The second IS a problem, but has nothing to do with the Armed Services policy, in existence since we were a nation, that immigrant non-citizens may join the Armed Forces.

The ONLY thing this policy does is recognize that immigrants who care enough about this nation to fight for it OUGHT to be first in line to receive the benefits of citizenship.

I've said it before and I'll continue to say it: Our problem is NOT with immigrants, most of whom love this country and its freedoms very much. Our problem is mostly with those who are born here, take it for granted and are far more interested in seeing US become more like the inferior nations of the rest of the world than they are proud to be American.

If we'd spend MORE energy confronting THEM, and less worrying about someone's accent, IMO we'd be far better off.

[Sabertooth]

I'm a conservative who votes Republican, and I can tell you that one of the worst problems the GOP has is with the loony fringe who alternately excoriate and then tries to get their silly rantings identified with GOP policy.

Sorry, I got lost... which loony fringe are we talking about?

We're such big tent these days!

[Brownie74]

The legitimate discussion of immigration policies that are definitely too loose is almost always muddied by name calling bigotry.

Would you consider our positions muddied by name calling bigotry simply because we ask our elected official to enforce federal law as they are required to do under Title 8, Chapter 12 USC?

I have posted many time regarding immigration and I have never called for the deportation of legal citizens of any nationally. However I do demand that this administration enforce our laws and quotas which they are sworn to do.

Hispanics get the brunt of most discussions because they are the biggest offenders. The law should be applied equally to all people.

If you consider people calling for the enforcement of federal law to be racist and bigoted - so be it. I guess I am just a bigoted racist!!

[ohioWfan]

If you consider people calling for the enforcement of federal law to be racist and bigoted - so be it. I guess I am just a bigoted racist!!

You see, you just demonstrated the problem, and you are part of it.

I didn't call you a racist. I didn't call Sabertooth a racist. I just said that there are racists who are be ranting about immigration and don't succeed in covering up their hatred of Mexican people.

I wasn't talking to you, nor about you.

[waterstraat]

Careful, your white robe and hood are showing.

Your post makes no sense. Being against an American Foreign Legion, similar to the French Foreign Legion, has nothing to do with what you said. Neither does requiring citizenship to be in our army. Just what do alien Pakistanis, alien mexicans, alien Iraqies, and alien chinese infiltrating our army have to do with white robes?

[Brownie74]

I just said that there are racists who are be ranting about immigration and don't succeed in covering up their hatred of Mexican people.

Are they FReepers or are they just people gathering in the break room over coffee? For the most part I find most immigration threads to be factual and well thought out.

[ohioWfan]

They are freepers, but I don't have screennames to give you mostly because I avoid their posts like the plague. Be observant. The racism is there.

[Dante3]

Allowing noncitizens to serve in our military is opening up the danger to a "fifth column" right in the units that are supposed to protect our country.

We then reward them with citizenship which gives these "new citizens" acess to the most sensitive segements of our millitray. Remember, we can't engage in racila profiling to keep these "new citizens" out of sensitive assignments.

Wait till "sleeper" Jihad fantic types gain access to our missle silos. It will be a lot worse than 9-11.

[Poohbah]

Allowing noncitizens to serve in our military is opening up the danger to a "fifth column" right in the units that are supposed to protect our country.

Yeah, why should we give them citizenship in return for their willing to get limbs blown off or worse?

We then reward them with citizenship which gives these "new citizens" acess to the most sensitive segements of our millitray. Remember, we can't engage in racila profiling to keep these "new citizens" out of sensitive assignments.

The sensitive assignments involve getting a virtual proctology check. Even the most trivial issue involves extensive checking. They don't "profile" on any basis: the motto of the various agencies that do the background clearances for these jobs is "In God We Trust; Everyone Else is Suspect."

Wait till "sleeper" Jihad fantic types gain access to our missle silos. It will be a lot worse than 9-11.

Don't hold your breath. They don't just hand out silo crew assignments to anybody. I sincerely doubt that someone as visibly twitchy as you are would be allowed anywhere near a missile silo.

[Brownie74]

I know some FReepers that do take a hardline approach to certain Hispanic groups like LaRaza and Reconquista that I think are fringe groups that are trying to undermine U. S. policy.

Anyway thanks for your thoughts. I am off to see the doctor. Anybody want to volunteer for me?

[Poohbah]

It's simple: look for any Freeper that treats the views of La Raza and their rent-a-mob as the views of ALL Mexican nationals or Americans of Mexican descent.

La Raza is composed of two groups. The first group is small: it's some tenured professors. That's the permanent membership. The second group is a larger but inconstant group of college students whose goals are as follows:

1. Find someone of the opposite sex who's out from under Mama and Papa's thumb, looking to shed his or her bourgeious morality;
2. Suck up to the tenured professor in group (a) whose class they need for their academic requirements; and
3. Belong to a "trendy" group until the graduate, whereupon they discover that they have to do such minor things as get a job, pay bills, and otherwise behave as an adult.

In short, this isn't a grass-roots movement; it's an astroturf movement (looks impressive from a distance, but when you get close, you realize it's fake).

[Brownie74]

I understand. If you click on my screen name and go to my profile page and scroll to the bottom you will find a couple of links to Aztlan etc. Notice that the URL's are from ucla.edu - what does that tell you? LOL!!

[ZULU]

Illbay, if I may humbly respond to your criticism of my statement - you are an idiot.

What I said has nothing to do with any restrictions on immigration. Although I do believe they are necessary. I don't believe any immigrants should be allowed into this country who are Muslim and from those countries which have demonstrated an ability to produce fundamentalist fanatics.

As for illegal aleins - they should be deported - immediately. They should eb entitled to NO benefits accrued as a result of their illegal invasion of my country. The only person who could object to such a statement is a) a politician, b) an immigration attorney, or c) an illegal invader. Into what category do you fall??

[doug from upland]

Great move by our president. Those who are defending this nation deserve to be citizens.

[ohioWfan]

Excellent post, thank you. I agree 100%.

[cva66snipe]

Well here's my opinion and experience in this matter. From a E-mail I sent someone on this matter.

Gee some are clueless as to the potential problems this creates as well within the military. Here is a real life adventure from my military time in the late 70's. I remember being on the ship one day and hearing the fire bell being rang. As I listened to hear the number of rings to identify forward, aft, or midship, so I would know where to respond too I heard these distinct words being announced for the fire call & location afterward. Fuego, Fuego, Fuego, and the rest was in spanish as well.

Another time a guy in my shop needed a crescent wrench. He was a Phillipino Machinist Mate. I had worked with this man for 3 years and he called me on the phone wanting a crescent wrench. It took 5 repeats to understand him. What if the space had been flooding or burning? As well after Boot Camp I had a Phillipino instructor for apprentiship training school. We could not understand a word being said in the class. Yet by Navy regulations all jobs were open to him even though their was a major communication gap. They forget that most of these foreign nationals who served before that time were cooks or stewards. Now any job by equal opertunity is open to them whether they can speak good English or not.

Honestly I'm not racist but I see the impractical being forced for political correctness. But I still have to wonder. If they were indeed good and patriotic warriors then why not fight the corruption in their homelend? Such is the current problem in Mexico. They will not fight to take their goverment back. Do we think they will want to fight our tyrants as well much less respond or answer to a full scale national callup? When that comes you will see an Exodus for the south gate all will again be proud citizens of Mexico. That is until the wars over of course.

[Poohbah]

But I still have to wonder. If they were indeed good and patriotic warriors then why not fight the corruption in their homelend?

A lot of these folks got chased out of their homelands at gunpoint--much like my Irish ancestors were. And the nativist crowd said exactly the same thing about them that they say about our current crop of immigrants (they don't speak-a da Engleesh so good, they're lazy, they're not "real Americans," et cetera). And they went on to fight their way through the Civil War and the Indian Wars--or just how do you think that the 7th Cav got "Gary Owen" as its regimental motto and march?

They will not fight to take their goverment back.

Do we think they will want to fight our tyrants as well much less respond or answer to a full scale national callup?

Many already do. Many Americans don't.

When that comes you will see an Exodus for the south gate all will again be proud citizens of Mexico.

Actually, you'll see a lot of Freepers head for Canada before you see the great exodus you speak of--because the current trend would just make itself more completely felt.

[4Freedom]

"Little sophistries about "future Republicans," "taking jobs Americans don't want," etc. change none of that. Unfortunately, many in this forum find them to be handy substitutes for honest debate."

Speaking for myself, the little sophistries stay!

They illustrate the absurdity of the pro-illegal immigration side's arguments.

I shall launch my sophistries at every opportunity unless and until the other side lays down their absurdities and not before.

I refuse to unilaterally disarm!

LOL!