Hispanics praise new citizenship policy for military

Anybody who does service to this country in the military, deserves a shot at citizenship. The pandering claim here is a cheap, self-serving shot.

I don't entirely disagree with the first statement, but I think if you read the rest of my posts on this thread, you'll see why I have problems with this move by this President. If he caim out strongly against Illegals and Amnesties of all kinds, it would be a different story. But the President's own actions create a regrettable context of pandering to Hispanics on the basis of Immigration policy. The truth isn't a cheap shot.
Tell me... how do you feel about Amnestied Illegals, who've shoved themselves to the front of the line and displaced immigrant candidates willing to come here lawfully, suddenly having a shot at fast track citizenship?

You serious here, or are you mocking a vital effort?

I'm mocking the "Bush can do no wrong" crowd.

I'll go back to front. I'm mocking the "Bush can do no wrong" crowd.

It is a vital effort nonetheless. Why mock those who share the same goal?

Tell me... how do you feel about Amnestied Illegals,

We've had enough discussions for you to know I believe the same as you, here.

If he caim out strongly against Illegals and Amnesties of all kinds, it would be a different story.

Agreed, that history would wipe out any "pandering" claim, however, maybe your message has gotten there through whatever means amd settling for second best, with an unassailable logic, is what's at work here. Neither you nor I can know this, despite past history.

You've got a lot of great points on this issue but your continued insistence on "mocking" those who support Bush, sometimes weakens your position, IMHO.

I don't support him on everything either, but the war here is real and dangerous, as you have aptly characterized this one issue. If we are to lose the whole, over divisions on a few, it could be tragic.

Bob, you can't blame those of us that are confounded by Bush's lack of desire to get our legal and illegal immigration house in order for being a little less than enthusiastic about this President having a Republican controlled House and Senate.

There's a majority of Americans that want illegal immigration stopped, deportations started immediately, employers prosecuted, legal immigration reduced to 250,000 to 300,000 yearly and the fast-track visa programs eliminated, etc., etc..

What happened the last time Bush tried every dirty, sneaky, underhanded, behind-our-backs, political trick, in-the-book to push his 245i extension through?

It squeeked through the Republican controlled House and would have made it through, IMHO, a Republican controlled Senate.

It's Bush's fault we're conflicted on your stated goal of a Republican controlled Senate. It's Bush's fault we question, if really want to give a RINO President that kind of power.

As I just wrote to another Freeper, re-read the last 120 years of Republican Party, platform planks on immigration and then the Libertarian Party's immigration platform plank.

Tell me, IYO, which one Bush is following.

Tell me why there's an anti-deportation Libertarian in charge of the INS and a Hispanic, illegal immigration advocate working as the chief border patrol agent in Arizona?

You talk as if anyone that isn't over-joyed at the prospect of a Republican controlled House and Senate is betraying the Republican Party.

I believe we would be over-joyed at that prospect, if we had a truly Republican President.

I shudder to think what our nation's December will be like, if this President and Mexico's Vicente Fox have their way on immigration.

You talk as if anyone that isn't over-joyed at the prospect of a Republican controlled House and Senate is betraying the Republican Party.

I do not intend to cast blame, please don't get me wrong here. I agree with almost all of your points, with the exception of not supporting the senate power takeover. The danger of not controlling the senate, is glaringly obvious today.
1. We cannot get conservative judges in place. You think Daschle & Leahy's judges would rule with us on any immigration litigation?
2. We cannot get a sane Energy Bill which is vital for a sound economy and to enhance national security. Look what happened in CA in the winter of 2000-went from a surplus to $20 billion in debt.
3. We could not get a "good" economic stimulus package through and in part, I think we can attribute the slow recovery to that.
4. The best answer to failing schools which would have had incalculable benefits, vouchers, was squashed because of a RAT senate.
5. The tax reductions will be in jeopardy with a Rat senate.
6. Any legislation relating to the war on terrorism will be fought over, causing the division the RATs are seeking.
7. Ridiculous legislation like "Hate Crimes" bills and all manner of Enviro-nazi bills will be passed by a RAT senate.

I do not mean to lecture on this issue, as you, Sabertooth and many others are as much or more politically astute than I am. I am leary of the party losing its base, or a good part of it over this issue. You, Sabertooth and others are to be commended for making this a hot-button issue. I think you have made a difference; look at Tancredo & O'Reilly for confirmation of this.

My only point here, is that IMO, a RAT controlled senate, delivered in the name of illegal immigration opposition, will have far more detrimental consequences than any benefit we may be seeking.

You have some very valid concerns. Other Freepers have voiced similar concerns. I share some of them with you.

I believe where we still differ is that there are many of us that looked at the last national elections and couldn't believe how close so many races were, especially, the Presidential race.

The last elections were fraught with vote fraud and irregularities of historic proportions. Bush has done nothing to fix the election process.

Illegal aliens went to the polls in unprecedented numbers. Bush has, not only, done nothing prevent this in the future, his support for an extension of 245i caused a human tidal wave of potential illegal immigrant voters, since 9/11.

Take a look at Marine Inspector's home page. He estimates that 1.6 to 3.6 million additional, illegal immigrants have entered the country since 9/11. That's 1.6 to 3.6 million additional, illegal immigrants, as many as 10,000 each day!

I've said this before. I don't believe we can turn voters to the conservative point of view as fast as Bush is letting liberal, 3rd world, illegal immigrants run across our borders and head to the polls.

Bush has done nothing good on the illegal immigration issue and he won't do anything good, if the Republicans win the Senate and retain the House.

Bush will push his 245i through both Houses of Congress as soon as he gets the votes.

We see immigration, as Skeeter put it, "the linchpin for all other conservative issues and guess what - most modern immigrants could not care less for conservative issues."

If the politicians that want our votes don't put a stop to this tidal wave of liberal, 3rd world voters from entering our country in an unregulated legal and illegal fashion, we won't ever be able to elect a conservative to any office let alone see them nominated to the bench.

Conservatives will be hopelessly outnumbered.

Bush will never put our immigration house in order. Neither he nor any Republican, that doesn't stand with Rep. Tom Tancredo on immigration, deserves our vote.

We have to play as tough with these pandering politicians as the illegal aliens and their advocate groups do.

Bush and alot of other RINOs don't respect the will of the majority of Americans on immigration.

Election time is the only time we can make them pay for that lack of respect.

If Bush wants our votes, he has 4 months to fire that Libertarian, Ziglar, and put someone that will get tough on illegal immigration in charge of the INS.

Thanks for the long and thoughtful response. As you stated, we share many, if not almost all, of the same thoughts.

This is an extremely important issue for the future of this country. Voter fraud, especially with illegals, as you have rightly pointed out, can swing many an election. I, too would like to see wholesale housecleaning at the INS. The point you made about illegals coming in faster than Americans are switching to the conservative side is valid, scary and real. However, that presumes that each and every one will be walked to the polls and easily vote. That will happen, but not in total.

The only place we disagree, is staying away in November, in protest of 245i, will be good. To me, conceding a vote, any vote, gives the RAT/leftist coalition the chance at regaining power. If they do, our chances are gone forever.

On the other hand, the reason they seem so desperate today is, IMO, that they realize they are on the verge of being toast and have one remaining chance to regain power, before they lose it forever.

I will not give them the chance and am doing everything I can to prevent that. I will not give up because of this issue, although I agree with your previous post about the controlled numbers, immediate deportation, confiscation of company assets employing illegals.

I would even go further with economic sanctions against the offending country the illegal came from. There is a solution here.

I believe where we still differ is that there are many of us that looked at the last national elections and couldn't believe how close so many races were, especially, the Presidential race. The last elections were fraught with vote fraud and irregularities of historic proportions. Bush has done nothing to fix the election process. Illegal aliens went to the polls in unprecedented numbers. Bush has, not only, done nothing prevent this in the future, his support for an extension of 245i caused a human tidal wave of potential illegal immigrant voters, since 9/11. Take a look at Marine Inspector's home page. He estimates that 1.6 to 3.6 million additional, illegal immigrants have entered the country since 9/11. That's 1.6 to 3.6 million additional, illegal immigrants, as many as 10,000 each day! I've said this before. I don't believe we can turn voters to the conservative point of view as fast as Bush is letting liberal, 3rd world, illegal immigrants run across our borders and head to the polls. Bush has done nothing good on the illegal immigration issue and he won't do anything good, if the Republicans win the Senate and retain the House. Bush will push his 245i through both Houses of Congress as soon as he gets the votes. We see immigration, as Skeeter put it, "the linchpin for all other conservative issues and guess what - most modern immigrants could not care less for conservative issues." If the politicians that want our votes don't put a stop to this tidal wave of liberal, 3rd world voters from entering our country in an unregulated legal and illegal fashion, we won't ever be able to elect a conservative to any office let alone see them nominated to the bench. Conservatives will be hopelessly outnumbered. Bush will never put our immigration house in order. Neither he nor any Republican, that doesn't stand with Rep. Tom Tancredo on immigration, deserves our vote. We have to play as tough with these pandering politicians as the illegal aliens and their advocate groups do. Bush and alot of other RINOs don't respect the will of the majority of Americans on immigration. Election time is the only time we can make them pay for that lack of respect. If Bush wants our votes, he has 4 months to fire that Libertarian, Ziglar, and put someone that will get tough on illegal immigration in charge of the INS.

Great post!

"Thanks for the long and thoughtful response."

Thank you both for taking the time to read and reply to it.

"The only place we disagree is staying away in November, in protest of 245i, will be good."

Just for the record, I would never advocate staying away from the polls, as a response to bad governance, ever. My whole family and our friends will be voting, if I have to drive them to the polls or bring them absentee ballots. We just won't be voting for any candidates that are openly pro-illegal immigration, open borders, anti-deportation, pro-amnesty, etc., etc.. Even, if they're Republican.

"To me conceding a vote, any vote, give the RAT/leftist coalition the chance at regaining power. If they do, our chances are gone forever."

This is what, IMHO, needs clarification. When you say, "our chances are gone forever," who are you really refering to?

What matters to the "our" I'm talking about is the chances of voters that are both fiscal and social conservatives having a voice in our government.

Have we won anything in November, if we vote a RINO/leftist, open borders, pro-amnesty, big spending and taxing coalition into power? IMHO, no.

Does it really matter that the Republicans stay in charge, if they govern by the Democrat/Libertarian Party's Platforms? Again, IMHO, no.

If we allow the RINOs to keep letting 1.6 to 3.6 million 3rd world, liberal, illegal aliens to enter this country, every year, "our" conservative candidate's chances are what's "gone forever." I can't see wasting my vote on RINOs that just vote against us, once they're in the House and the Senate, anymore.

"I would even go further with economic sanctions against the offending country the illegal came from"

We agree, again. We should, at least, deny them our foreign aid money.

Have we won anything in November, if we vote a RINO/leftist, open borders, pro-amnesty, big spending and taxing coalition into power? IMHO, no. Does it really matter that the Republicans stay in charge, if they govern by the Democrat/Libertarian Party's Platforms? Again, IMHO, no. If we allow the RINOs to keep letting 1.6 to 3.6 million 3rd world, liberal, illegal aliens to enter this country, every year, "our" conservative candidate's chances are what's "gone forever." I can't see wasting my vote on RINOs that just vote against us, once they're in the House and the Senate, anymore.

You are absolutely right, it does not matter what name they call themselves, we will be very much worse off. (for your information though, many Libertarians are against open borders. Hopefully we will change that official position soon)

If we allow the RINOs to keep letting 1.6 to 3.6 million 3rd world, liberal, illegal aliens to enter this country, every year, "our" conservative candidate's chances are what's "gone forever."

Just a few thoughts. Today, on FOX news, Molly Hernnenburg? brought up the report that Sabertooth pinged me on, that the LAX shooter stayed because of 245i, she then went on to say there was growing opposition to illegals and wrapped it in with the visa for sale scam out of Qatar. Very nice piece of reporting.

Tomorrow on FOX's new show pulse, they are going to show how Mexican coyote's have smuggled arabs into the US.

I'm hoping the weight of public exposure will bring about a change in philosophy and get Bush off current thinking and effect a change that is what we all want to see.

I don't intend to vote for any RINO's either. I've started giving only to individual candidates with conservative positions, not to the RNCC or the RNC. I've told all their people who call that my money will NOT be watered down and spread to people like McCain, Chaffee, Snowe, etc.

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