How fast is too fast?

Washington Times ^ | Friday, July 5, 2002 | Eric Peters

[JohnHuang2]

Reasonable speed limits are in everyone's best interests. The question is, how do we agree on what speeds are "reasonable"?

By observing traffic flow on any given stretch of road, traffic safety engineers can arrive at a scientifically objective speed limit that corresponds to the rate of travel the majority of drivers naturally gravitate toward. This so-called "85th percentile" speed is based on the altogether sound idea that most drivers are neither reckless nor suicidal

[JohnHuang2]

Friday, July 5, 2002

Quote of the Day by usconservative

[Jonathon Spectre]

This author seems to believe "speed limits" were and are somehow intended to make motor travel safer.

This is a fallacy. I won't flat-out tell you what "speed limits" are, but I'll give you a hint: Starts with a "t" and ends with "ax".

[NMFXSTC]

Thye author makes sense!

Germany, for example, sets speed limits only in areas that actually need a limit because of conditions. They also have the three lanes of major autobahns clearly marked with speed MINIMUMS (right lane is 60 kpg, middle is 90 and laft lane is 100 kph MINIMUM!

Germany also has stringent requirements for drivers' licenses adn vehicle registration (you learn the road rules and demonstrate competetnce behind the wheel) and you'll not see any beat up, smoking, broken glass (or plastic taped in place of glass), no lights, bald tire rust heaps there...they haul them off the road! Insurance is mandatory...or jail time results!

Overall, this nation needs to look at speed limits, vehicle registrations, and insurance. It has become a joke in this country!

[FreedomFriend]

Do we really need to care what Germany does?

[Myrddin]

I've driven plenty in Germany on the autobahn. You see two situations. Fast cars with not a scratch and accidents where all involved are dead with totally destroyed vehicles. I have yet to see an in between case. The damned big trucks make travel a chore. Fortunately, there are "no truck" days during the week.

The Germans are so hung up on finally earning a driver's license that you will find cards celebrating the acquistion of the "Fuehrerschein" at most card shops. Frankly, I think they all drive like teenagers with hot Corvette. I'm thankful to be finished with my contract work there. It was an interesting experience.

[Myrddin]

I've driven the I-15 from San Diego, CA to Pocatello, ID about 20 times over the last year. The top posted speed limit is 75 MPH from North Las Vegas to exit 260 south of Provo, UT. The only slowdown is the segment from Littlefield, AZ to St. George, UT where the winding Virgin River Gorge makes slowing down necessary for safety. In all those trips, I've seen few drivers anxious to exceed the 75 MPH posted limit. There is a construction area immediately north of Beaver, UT where the speed is limited to 60 MPH for a 3 mile stretch because of construction equipment. Be advised that 18 wheel trucks maintain a 75-80 MPH speed in Utah and Nevada. There is no lower speed limit assigned to big trucks in those states as one finds in California and Idaho.

The San Diego area has max posted speeds of 65 MPH on I-5 and I-805. It is rare to see people drive under 70 MPH when the traffic flow will allow it. CHP simply doesn't have the manpower to ticket everyone violating the law. If you actually try to OBEY the speed limit, you may get a citation for dangerously impeding traffic flow.

[The KG9 Kid]

Welcome to California!

Now keep to the slow lane. :)

[NMFXSTC]

Yeah, FreedomFriend, we do (or should).

The Germans have far better engineered roads, cars, and conditions.

We fail to enforce insurance laws ("gee, I can't afford insurance, but I need and "deserve" a car"). OUr DWI rates are hugely more than the Europeans'.

Stop by any metro court and watch the "no insurance, noe registration, speeding" cases...in the majority of cases, judges simpy ask (yeah, "ask") the defendent to return within a 30 day period and show insurance and registration...no problem? My mother was KIA by a driver in an uninsured and unregistered vehicle. I got a "sorry" from the courts and a "no way" from attorneys I contacted to see if we had a case (and the driver was 84 years old and had just renewed his license for an eight year period?)

Yeah...maybe we can learn a bit from these Germans.

[NMFXSTC]

I agree here, Myrddin...partially. I wouldn'y say they are "hung up" on getting a DL, but they do pay, on average, in excess of 2 grand to farchule and pay insurance, maintain vehicles very well, etc.

The autobahn can be frightening (I lived in FRG for 9 years), but it is predictible! That driver in the left lane IS gonna overtake you and get back in line in a hurry so that other guy coming up can overtake you both! And the signal! Imagine that? Actually using turn signals and passing lights!

The trucks can be a pain, but...they do have restrictive days and times.

Yep...I fel mucho safer on the 'bahn than on the interstates.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I just got back from Germany where in one leg I made it from Bonn to Kiel (345 miles) in under 4 hours. In a Volvo Cross Country. The only bad drivers I saw on the road were Brits and Nederlanders.

I thought the locals did an admirable job of driving fast but safely.

Maybe you were in East Germany where the ex-East Germans still drive their Trabants and pull out in front of you at 39 mph when you are closing 100 mph more! I wish Americans were as courtious as the German drivers!

[Libertarianize the GOP]

fyi

[NMFXSTC]

Yup...and I did 16 countries and logged more than 90K miles on an ;84 Harley during my stint...never felt suseptable at all...but on our interstates? ya never know what's next on the road...road kill, an "alligator" from a big rig, a hubcap, oil bottle, lumber, or WTF...once I came upon a damned driveshaft!

The Germans keep those roads clear of debris for that reason...speeds that are reasonable. Here, we just plod along complaining that the truck rubber, the plastic trash and bottles littering the roads are "bad"...

Gimme a Beemer or Audi and a strech of authobahn or primary route any day!

[Jeff Chandler]

84 Harley

Anybody out there ever buy a bike from Berlin's "unofficial" Harley dealer back in the late 70's? I helped a buddy of mine pick up old choppers in the States and ship them over there to be sold with California registrations. Customized bikes are verboten in Deutschland, but the Polizei didn't know what to make of the foreign regs, so they didn't do anything with them. The bikes were very popular with the local pimps and a huge profit was made on them. (If anybody asks, I made this up!)

[Myrddin]

My major autobahn venture was on a trip from Mons, Belgium to Landstuhl, Germany. I spent a week working at Ramstein and staying at a very nice hotel near Kaiserslautern. It was an all day trip with the autobahn segment falling after dark with a raging rain storm and big trucks.

Subsequent experiences were around Frankfurt am Main. That is where I sensed the reckless teenager behavior on the city streets.

The standard European road etiquette of driving in the slow lane and only hopping one lane left to pass is something American drivers don't appreciate. It is a necessary survival skill on the continent. When you visit the U.K., you have to remember the right lane is the FAST lane. You hang out in the left lane on the M roads unless you need to pass.

[Myrddin]

One of my co-workers decided to show off when we were working at SHAPE one summer. We took a trip to Brussels for dinner and a movie. He returned us to Mons in 15 minutes flat in a Volvo 470. The speedometer was pegged at 220 KM/h. The guy races cars at home in the U.S. and outfitted the car with Z rated tires so he could "play around" on the European roads.

[KeyWest]

Good article. We recently traveled to Pa. and kept the cruise control at 73mph. Were passed by many even at that. Only problem I had was someone passing me and swerving infront of me and slowing down to avoid a speed trap. 75 is a perfect speed for the interstates.

[RightWinger]

I drive about 8 mph over the posted speed limit on interstate highways. I've passed by many radar sites and have never gotten a ticket.

[Prodigal Son]

I lived in Germany for many a year. My apartment was in a city called Erlangen- near Nuernberg and the post where I was stationed was in Schweinfurt- 100 km (60 miles) away. I drove back and forth every day (weekends excepted) and had a choice of two routes- up the A3 or up the A73/A70. This totalled 1,000 kilometers weekly or around the Earth more than once each year. (in case anybody's curious- Subaru Justy- not a speedy car- just reliable). I also took many, many trips to other places and countries and have been on most of the major Autobahns that Germany has to offer. You want the best one to drive on?- The stretch of A3 between Nuernburg and Munich- 3 lanes no speed limit and a sheer pleasure to drive.

Anyway, from my personal experience, this article is dead on the money. Most people, I found, seemed to be comfortable driving between 120 and 140 km/h (approx. 70 to 85 mph). Me and my Justy, we did 120 and used 130 for overtaking to maximize the fuel economy versus time spent travelling. My 60 mile one way trip took one hour on average (this is, of course the little roads before and after the Autobahn figured in too). Of course there were people who drove faster- and not just faster but dramatically faster. Mostly BMWs, some jealous Audis, the occasional Porsche- that sort of thing.

But by and large, most people tended to stay within that range I've just described. I never once saw an accident, although I was in quite a few Staus (traffic jams) which were caused by a few. Most of the Staus I ran into were caused by construction (which the Germans are always doing to the Autobahn). As a child and adult in America I witnessed more traffic accidents, some with fatalities than I can count. I don't have any hard facts or statistics, just my personal observations and they back up what the article says.

I think a higher speed limit would be a good thing and also I didn't find the Germans to be unsafe drivers- actually, to the contrary. They took the rules of the road seriously- especially the left lane for passing only rule. I mean Germans take rules seriously as a general rule period- traffic laws especially. I'd like to see some statistics comparing German versus American traffic fatalities but I would be surprised if Germany had more statistically than the USA (even adjusted for population).

[Prodigal Son]

Subsequent experiences were around Frankfurt am Main.

Also, I'll grant you that. I never like driving to the airport. Around Cologne isn't too nice either. The one Autobahn I found to be the most similar to an American interstate was the A6 which runs East- West from Nuernberg to France. For some reason, driving this one always reminded me of I-75 down to Florida ;-)

[medved]

so if the cars of the 1950s were deemed safe to operate at 75-80 mph

I was there, believe me, they weren't. Every other part of the article I basically agree with. My own view is that on a typical three-lane highway, the speed limit in the right lane should be 60, and then 65 and 75 in the center and left lanes.