It's time for new owners

Interesting stuff.

Last but not least, is there some Enviral Agenda against using bull dozers and power wagons to make fire lanes? It seems like all we see are pictures of humans fight fires and no heavy duty equipment!

The agenda is seed. The dozers and heavy equipment carry weeds. The wackjobs fear them for that reason and rightly so. The problem with that idea is that boots, backpacks, tents, and tarps carry weeds too. The net effect of all that caution is to make things worse by increasing the acreage and number of sites exposed to entry by firefighters from all over the country.

Fuel management always was the correct tool and these turkeys are now in over their heads.

It's too late to ask why the west is burning, everyone already knows it is the result of absurd environmental policies that have prevented logging to thin the fuel; the "roadless" policy that prevents firefighters from having access to the forests; and the Endangered Species Act, that won't allow heavy equipment in critical habitat to cut firebreaks.

Everybody says it, but they don't know it -- because it's not really true. The way Lamb puts it, it's as if big fires only happened only after environmentalists changed the policies -- which is categorically false.

And when he decries the lack of fire roads and the ESA's constraints on building fire breaks, Lamb himself is guilty of perpetuating the very problems he claims to want to solve. After all, the primary human contribution to the forest fire problem is not a result of logging policy, but of putting out fires, which allows the buildup of the understory.

But even this is an exercise in human arrogance, of the same sort that informs the global warming debate. It's not as if the understory never built up before the USFS came into being, and it's not as if immense and destructive fires never occurred without our help.

As with global warming, natural phenomena are being blamed on humanity in order to further a political agenda.

Whether or not we agree with Lamb's basic premise is beside the point: he's demagoguing us, and he shouldn't be.

According to your reply, I'm not just imagining things about not seeing dozers and other heavy equipment battle these fires this year and the past few years.

Your reply:

The agenda is seed. The dozers and heavy equipment carry weeds. The wackjobs fear them for that reason and rightly so. The problem with that idea is that boots, backpacks, tents, and tarps carry weeds too. The net effect of all that caution is to make things worse by increasing the acreage and number of sites exposed to entry by firefighters from all over the country.

So due to their fear of weeds, they will let 200,000 acres burn up instead using dozers to break in some real fire lanes. With these big fires and the fuel build up, manpower is not enough to contain let alone control these fires. Heavy equipment is needed! These slimey bastards are even worse than I have thought.

Your final part of your reply:

Fuel management always was the correct tool and these turkeys are now in over their heads.

They are obviously over their heads and have placed a large part of this country's population and forests in a Clear and Present Danger.

The al Qaeda terrorists must just set back and say go Club Sierra! You are so effective in harming America/Americans!

So due to their fear of weeds, they will let 200,000 acres burn up instead using dozers to break in some real fire lanes.

Yyyyup, but that's only part of it. It's the reason the wack-jobs on the ground fear the dozers.

With these big fires and the fuel build up, manpower is not enough to contain let alone control these fires.

Yyyup, they don't want them contained.

These slimey bastards are even worse than I have thought.

Yyyyyup. Worse, and it starts at the top.

Here's the message I've been telling everybody here for a couple of years now: International Paper, Georgia Pacific, Weyerhauser Group, Crown Paper, et al. want to make money on their forests. They have forests all over the world: Morocco, New Zealand, Canada, Eastern Europe, Russia... The world's forests produce more lumber, paper, and pulp than anybody can use at least at a price they want to get for their goods. To get high prices the big guys need a shortage.

It works just like the California Power Crisis Dave.

You shouldn't be surprised since the game is driven by the class of people with the lobbyists to get it done (you do know that Mark Rey's last job was as a lobbyist with the American Forest & Paper Association?). The folks in charge of the USFS are more than happy to oblige. They can make both the corporate world and the environmentalists happy, and they don't have to risk their people's necks any more than they have to (when a firefighter dies it makes for bad press). It was no different under Dombeck. It's democracy at its finest.

That's what a socialized commons can do.

Henry is right. Private property is the answer. He just doesn't know how to make it happen. The problem is: How should the land be managed for all its attributes so that a guy can make a buck taking care of nature and provide the range of products the public demands?

That's what I created Dave. It's not that radical because it can start on a small scale and grow. The good news is that for the system to optimize the market will be too complex for the big guys or the government to handle. It's a good niche for the small property owner, farmer, and rancher, although those roles will start to overlap as the system matures. It's an abstract idea, and is hard to generalize (as my book sadly proves), but in microcosm it is very simple.

I really don't understand why it's been so hard a sell. What's the alternative?

Stop the attacks by the wacko, extreme left-wing, enviro-nazis terrorist's on our Freedoms !!

Freedom Is Worth Fighting For !!

Molon Labe !!

Keep on posting your thoughts. Some of the best logic I've seen on this issue.

To steal Daschole's Airport Screener quote, "In order to professionalize,you have to privatize".

Henry is right. Private property is the answer

Thanks for the Ping GD, this is great. Carry, you have just hastened my purchase of your book.

Henry read one of my first drafts three years ago. He has been a willing and selfless supporter of my work ever since. Because the ideas in the book grew so much since he read it he doesn't understand the implications as he might, but the man is busier than a one-armed paper hanger.

I owe him.

BUMP!

INteresting question. I have a California history book. I see if anything is in there.

The problem is so many conservates and moderates don't even realize or know that there is a problem with these envirals.

Or what they have been doing to our country and us for the past two decades.

Then, many of the few who do realize that there is a problem, fall into that bottomless pit for conservatives. They want the government to solve the problem instead of people like you.

However, hang in there. There is a movement that is starting to wake up people. After they awaken, then they must look for a solution besides the governments. I say governments because with Kali, Oregone and the ChiCom east province of Washington, these state governments may be more corrupt than even our entrenched federal bureaucrats.

You would be surprised. Many of them have been simply duped. I sold a book to a Democrat staffer in the CA State Assembly (the committe he runs shall remain nameless, but let's just say it's critical to the issues we face). This guy is respected for his thoughtfulness and integrity. He truly cares. When he was done with the book (and yes, he did read it all) there was a rueful anger in him. He had recognized how he had been used and how deep the danger we face really is. He was spotted recently at a meeting of Global Warming skeptics.

We have a convert, and that is how it has to work. We have to find the key people, thoughtful leaders who care more about outcomes than ideology, and teach them one by one. They have to bring the rest in their cadres along, and when they need help we had better show up.

You would be surprised how many leftists find my work appealing once they see the corporate fascism running the Slave Party. They recoil in fear and have no place to go. This idea is a place to go with their love of nature that respects their individual rights and allows them to make a buck (something that they rediscover when confronted with reality).

I agree with you GD. After these horrendous wildfires here in AZ, the Governor, Kyl--everyone is fed up with the damage created by the envirals. We need to properly manage our forests, and CO has the answer to that one.