| This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
Posted on 07/01/2002 4:32:35 PM PDT by What Is Ain't
A teenage girl was gang-raped in central Pakistan last month as "punishment" meted out by a tribal jury for her brother's alleged affair with a woman of a higher tribe, police said.
A Panchayat, or tribal jury, ordered four men, including one of the jurists, to rape the 18-year-old girl on June 22 in the village of Meerwala.
Meerwala lies 610 kilometres south-west of the capital Islamabad.
District police chief Malik Saeed Awan said authorities were informed of the publicly-ordered gang-rape several days after the incident.
He said four men took turns to sexually assault the girl inside a room. She was then ordered to return home naked before 1,000 onlookers.
The rape was to avenge the "insult" caused to a family of the Mastoi tribe by the girl's brother's alleged "illicit affair" with a woman of a higher social standing.
The girl and her brother were from the lower Gujjar tribe.
The Panchayat had threatened that all women in the accused's family would be raped unless the 18-year-old submitted herself to the public gang rape.
Awan said police were taking action against members of the Panchayat.
Lawyers visiting the tribal area on Sunday urged the authorities to prosecute the rapists and the jury.
Come off it, Don. An 'accident' is when something happens once, or maybe twice.
But talking about equating, imagine if some USAF pilots think about Muslims the way you do, and many on this thread do? That they are vermin, to be exterminated. Untermensch. Yet you and the rest of the Freepers involved are probably perfectly pleasant people. It's just that you have worked yourself up to such a state, collectively blaming all Muslims for 911, when even Bin Laden said some of the terrorists didn't know their mission until after takeoff. Incomprehensible, unless something peculiar is at work. My guess is that uncertainty as to whether Bin Laden's dead has left some Americans adrift and enraged, and in need of some kind of psychological closure- which they certainly won't get from this Administration, or the media.
Charles Emerson Winchester III...
Has Winchester been to Australia, Bill?
Sorry I can't be a bit more supportive, but I've never heard of this one. And it sounds very hard to believe.
You're not answering the exact question. The question was not "is rape acceptable". The question was: "Do you condemn those Muslims who sentenced that teenage girl to be raped for something her brother did? Yes or no?"
He is asking for a specific statement which you seem curiously unwilling to give. It's very simple, really, and you could avoided a lot of this discussion with a simple response: "Yes, I do condemn those Muslims who sentenced that teenage girl to be raped for something her brother did"
I would hound Bush too, if he seemed curiously unwilling to answer a simple question, and preferred to dance around it instead of just forthrightly making a statement.
There seems to be a great reluctance on the part of certain posters to make a simple statement of condemnation regarding a (fellow?) Muslim. After a while, one would start concluding that there was some sort of religious prohibition against condemning a Muslim
And one would be egregiously wrong if one came to such a conclusion. One might even be rightly accused of not knowing how to read or comprehend simple English.
Why in the world would I have ever wanted to "avoid" this discussion? I sometimes use words like a fisherman throws chum into likely waters, just to see what slimy aquatic life might be around. And, I got a creelful this time.
There's a term used in the legal profession known as "Asked and Answered." I have said repeatedly in this thread that rape, murder, or any other crime against the person is completely unacceptable no matter who commits it, and won't say it again. If that wording doesn't fit your template, then go hire a linguist or buy a parrot.
Further, there has been no substantiation by anyone that Muslim beliefs or some dark flaw in Islam were directly responsible for the girl's rape. For every "damning" out-of-context phrase that some mook can crowbar out of the Koran to try to prove some twisted point, I can provide 5 that come right out of the Holy Bible that make all Christians look like slack-jawed yokels whose family trees don't fork.
If you have proof that Islam as a religion or Muslims as a culture approve of rape, then bring it. If not, zip it or go find a cheese thread or a drug war thread somewhere (but I repeat myself) to play in.
I do not need to justify my beliefs or the facts to the bigots participating in this thread. Posters such as these are the ones giving FR a bad name.
I realize this is going to be a very un-PC post for FR. Amazing that it could find it's way here, but since I have been relearning my way around all the new changes, this forum is positively reeking with PC.
Apparently there are several no-no's which I, for one, find astounding given the nature of this forum. One must not, under any circumstance, say a good thing about the Islamic religion, or against Bush, or for that matter Ann Coulter.
Don't misconstrue what I am about to say. I love Ann Coulter, think Bush is doing a good job, am not Muslim, and I am a true blue, registered Republican who is working on behalf of the conservative cause in whatever way I can.
I just have to ask some questions here. Why does it seem impossible to suggest certain topics that run contrary to majority opinion? To wit: There may be some good muslims out there, Bush might do something Unconstitutional,Ann Coulter might not be perfect?
Since pedophilia is so rampant throughout the Catholic Church-this must mean that all Catholics are pedophiles? Of course not! And I apologize now to all Catholics (especially Alan Keyes whom I admire more than anyone) yet by and large most on this forum are equating all Muslims as terrorist and barbarians, and the Islamic religion as responsible for it.
Have we ever asked ourselves just HOW the Taliban was supposed to turn over Osama? WE can't find him for crying out loud, do we honestly think that it would have been so easy for the Taliban? Oh, I guess given the rights violations over there by all those 'ragheads' (as one freeper put it) the war is therefore completely justified, although goodness knows one hasn't been declared yet.
Another question I wish to posit though I know this will bring on the flame to end all flames and probably much hate freepmail, but I feel it incumbent upon me to ask it.
What makes it more Constitutional to bomb the you-know-what out of Afghanistan than Kosovo? Is it because it is 'our guy' in there? What makes us any better than the Democrats is we fall to that type of thinking? I, for one, refuse to rubber stamp an action which I consider contemptous of our Constitution just because someone I voted for does it.
I see that there are pictures posted of the Taliban executing women. RAWA---a lovely, (communist) agency. So we are to bed with the commies because women have to wear the burka? Have one of you asked yourself what conditions were like before the Taliban came to power? Just curious. I know, but I would like to know if any of you do. Or if you can imagine a country that has no law, no Constitution, has been ripped for decades (about 3) by civil war, and just who the Taliban was fighting when they took over? Women were the currency, they were dropping like flies from brutality and rape. RAWA isn't going to tell you that because quite honestly, the Taliban were fighting their communist brothers.
No the Taliban were not great sympathizers of human rights and decency, but they were not any worse than what existed before. Our own State Dept. has records of this, and according to some of them, we were working with the Taliban to establish some type of Constitution for Afghanistan. Perhaps Osama didn't like that idea.
Whatever the case here freepers, I know I have alot of questions. I refuse to swallow wholesale propaganda, and lest we all forget, War has a certain tendency to leave less of the Constitution than before. I am extremely leery of the proposals coming out of Washington. I am not fond of most of them for one reason or another. I am also disturbed about current polls showing that most Americans would readily cede their liberty for a little more safety.
Sound familiar?
I too want the perpetrators of 911 brought to justice. My husband had many good friends in those towers where he used to work, but I am not going to forget everything I know and all my principles for the sake of revenge. I would ask that all Freepers keep in mind that FR is nothing if not the free exchange of ideas.
A major dark flaw in Islam involves the unwillingness of the majority of Muslims to voice criticism about a fellow Muslim to a non-Muslim.
General statements about "terrorism is bad" or "rape is bad" are OK, but I hardly ever hear a Muslim publicly say "I condemn _____'s acts", (unless the complaint is about a Muslim being overly tolerant of infidels). It's a flaw that's also present in Black culture to an extent: solidarity with the group is more important than universal principals of justice.
The West began to emerge from the Middle Ages when people decided that just because a religious authority proclaimed something, that didn't, of itself, make it true. Islam will not emerge from barbarism until it is safe for a Muslim to say, to an audience of Muslims and non-Muslims, "I think my imam is a hypocritical fool. "
It doesn't help when thinly-veiled racist comments such as found on #298 were left alone.
American Muslim Clerics Join Malik Zulu Shabazz of Anti-Semitic New Black Panther Party for Press Conference on C-SPAN
Several American Muslim clerics and the extreme anti-Semitic and racist New Black Panther Party (NBPP) blamed Jews and Israel for the September 11 terrorist attacks during a news conference at the National Press Club. The three-hour event on October 31, 2001 was televised live on C-SPAN2 to a national audience.
Malik Zulu Shabazz, national chairman of the NBPP, which co-sponsored the meeting with an apparent ad hoc coalition of some American Muslim organizations, described as "Muslims for Truth and Justice," called the United States and Israel, "The number one and two terrorists right now on the planet."
Shabazz, who has a long record of anti-Semitism, also said "Zionism is racism, Zionism is terrorism, Zionism is colonialism, Zionism is Imperialism, and support for Zionism is the root of why so many were killed on September 11.
"We have to make it plain that Zionists control America, lock, stock and barrel," Shabazz said. "The European Jews have America under control, lock stock and barrel, the media, foreign policy."
Amir Muhammad, national assistant to the NBPP, made reference to one myth about the attacks on the World Trade Center that claims that a number of Jews were forewarned of the disaster. "There are reports that as many as 3,000 to 5,000 so-called Jews did not go to that day, and we need to take a serious look at that," Muhammad said.
Other speakers echoed Shabazz's statements on the U.S. and Israel.
Background: Shabazz and the New Black Panther Party Malik Zulu Shabazz appears to have taken over the leadership of the New Black Panther Party (NBPP) since the February 17, 2001 death of the organization's previous leader, Khallid Muhammad, a former aide to Minister Louis Farrakhan. Shabazz was National Youth Director and Legal Counsel for the Million Youth March. He holds a law degree from Howard University, where he founded Unity Nation, a student group for supporters of Farrakhan's Nation of Islam.
In 1994, Shabazz organized a rally at Howard University in which he whipped the audience into a vicious anti-Semitic frenzy. Since then, the Anti-Defamation League has closely monitored Shabazz's appearances and rhetoric. For more information on his history of anti-Semitism, see the ADL Backgrounder, Malik Zulu Shabazz in His Own Words.
The NBPP claims to have 35 chapters nationwide. As the outspoken leader of the Black Panthers, Shabazz has appeared as many as 10 times on Fox News Channel during the past year.
Shabazz Joins with Muslim Clerics to Bash Jews and Israel On October 31, 2001, Shabazz was joined at the National Press Club by several Muslim clerics, including Imam Mohammad al-Asi, who claims to be associated with the Islamic Center of Washington, D.C. (In fact, the Islamic Center denies any connection to al-Asi). Al-Asi echoed Shabazz's statements on the U.S. and Israel, claiming that, "The twin evils in this world are the decision makers in Washington and the decision makers in Tel Aviv."
He also accused Israel of carrying out the September 11 attack on the World Trade Center, and claimed that Israeli officials decided to launch the attack after the U.S. refused their request to put down the Palestinian intifada. "If we're not going to be secure, neither are you," was the Israelis' thinking, according to al-Asi. "Ever since you fabricated the racist state of Israel in our Holy Land, you have caused that intrusion to recruit millions of Muslims in the world against you."
Al-Asi also gave three "facts" proving Israel's "macro-managing" of the events. He asked, "Why were people on Wall Street, why were those people frantically selling airline and insurance shares in the days before September 11?" Al-Asi claimed that Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon "was supposed to come to the U.S. on September 11, and he didn't make his appearance here … . Did he know something the rest of us didn't know?"
Al-Asi asked, "Where were the 4,000 to 5,000 Israeli Jews that were supposed to be in those two buildings on the 11th, and after the dust settled, why can they only confirm one dead and two injured? Did they know something we didn't know? Why didn't they go to work? Where were those 5,000 and why are you covering up these facts?"
Another Muslim Cleric, Imam Abdul Alim Musa of the Masjid al Islam, also in Washington, D.C., said that Israel is analogous to a cancer. "America placed this sword, this cancer, this Zionist state in the center of the crossroads of the world." Musa assailed the "Zionists in Hollywood, the Zionists in New York, and the Zionists in D.C." who "all collaborate" to oppress Blacks and Muslims.
Musa is a senior member of the Institute of Contemporary Islamic Thought (ICIT). The ICIT is, according to its Web site, "an international intellectual center of the global Islamic movement" consisting of individual activists, journalists and academics in all parts of the world."
URL:http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/shabazz_backgrounder.asp
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.