It is once more evidence of the takeover of the forrest service by envirornmentalist idealogs who do not consider the consequences of their actions. A firebreak is the only way to stop a forrest fire. Failure to use as much equipment as is available in setting up firebreaks is simply and plainly inconscionable. Being concerned about crossing streambeds and "plant issues in deciding not to use equpiment is clearly a misplaced priority.
Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown
So, the Forest service would rather have millions of acres destroyed rather than a few trees!
How convenient. Get her out of the area before she is lynched and soon it will be forgotten.
From SierraTimes (Who beat Worldnet Daily by about 5 days with this story)
Anglo Gold had already arranged with Ames Construction of Denver to move the bulldozers to the base camp at Lake George. Special trailers for moving them had been driven to Colorado -- one from Utah, the other from Kansas. Anglo Gold and Ames Construction were splitting the $5,000 cost of transporting the dozers to Lake George.
The dozers pulled into Lake George on Thursday afternoon, accompanied by a bevy of heavy equipment operators from the mine who were ready to run the equipment 24 hours a day and cut a firebreak from Lake George to Divide, then over to Woodland Park. The men figured they could cut a 35' wide firebreak for 20 miles through the forest in about a week. And they were offering to do this at no cost to the government. They just wanted to help.
Incredibly, the U.S. Forest Service turned them down. Kim Martin, the Incident Commander for the Forest Service, told Ron "The equipment is too heavy. It will tear up the land."
Reminds me of another incident where the leftist shills still running the Forestry Department did an about face...only THAT incident got four firefighters killed...
http://en.rian.ru/rian/index.cfm?prd_id=160&msg_id=2543157&startrow=41&date=2002-06-21&do_alert=0
2002-06-21 13:40 * RUSSIA * SIBERIA * FORESTS * FIRES * FIREFIGHTERS * SIBERIAN EXPERTS TO FIGHT FOREST FIRES IN THE USA KRASNOYARSK, June 21, 2002 /From RIA Novosti correspondent Boris Ivanov/ -- The Western Siberian city of Krasnoyarsk is sending is best firefighting specialists to the USA to join their American colleagues in the effort to extinguish forest fires in Idaho, Utah and Montana, reported the directorate of the Krasnoyarsk forest-protection aviation center on Friday. The trip was organized in the framework of an international program that envisages the setting up of quick-reaction groups responsible for combating forest fires in different countries. The firefighting skills of Siberians and particularly the way they were air-dropped from helicopters into the taiga, were praised by John Bushman, the chief of a US-based educational center for fighting forest fires, who conducted a test and selected 20 firefighters to embark on the trip to the USA.
Folks, Here is another *personal report* from the FIRES zone. Pay attention to these personal reports - they seldom make the major media and are not subject to some reporter/editors spin. Many thanks to all who have taken the time to let us know the true story going on.
Jackie Juntti,WGEN idzrus@earthlink.net
Subject: Fw: Re: Fires Burning in America From: gary l buckland
Dear Jackie - It is a hobby of mine to "flip over" a lot of government "rocks" and see what crawls out. There is no end to the "plain stupidity" that you can find - with ease.
Your article just points out a "drop in the ocean" as to what you can find on an HOURLY basis. Common sense is not very common - if you don't already know it.
You asked for comments about the Hayman fire that started just west of Woodland Park , CO. I live in Colorado Springs , CO - and own land just a few miles south of where the fire started. The only thing that saved us, this time, was wind direction - but it "ain't" over yet.
A local news paper columnist (Rich Tosches) wrote an article about an absurd incident in which the Hayman fire could have easily been stopped before it could do so much damage.
Let me preface by saying - I have spent 35 years in the heavy equipment business - 25 of which were with the Caterpillar organization. I know equipment !!. Mr. Tosches "article" mentions Caterpillar D 10's. I can tell you more about a D 10 than you really care to know. A local gold mining company ( one of my ex customers ) offered [ at no cost ] to furnish 2 of these Large crawler dozers in order to stop the Hayman fire before it became a raging inferno. They were being good neighbors ,in the best of the western tradition, by offering this million dollars worth of equipment - at a significant cost to themselves.
Their offer was refused !!!!!! The official reason - "We wouldn't want to scar the land with a blade that big". The eventual cost of this stupidity was far , far more costly than any D 10 would have caused. These 2 machines could have cleared more fire line in a few hours than it took 2500 firefighters 2 weeks to clear. This is a pure and simple case of having "Amateurs" in positions of responsibility. Monday morning quarter backing - "NO" - just a matter of common sense. Bone dry conditions - extreme low humidity - wind - and miles and miles of timber - with no real access or natural barriers.
The gold company was also told that their "dozer operators" were not "CERTIFIED FIREFIGHTERS". The company said "fine - put your own "operators" on the dozers. Their offer was still rejected. The results of all this is there for the "seeing".
I am the son of a Kansas Pioneer - we fought ( as good neighbors) grass prairie fires long before most of the United States citizenry were even born. We did not need "Certified Firefighters" to come in and "make judgements" for us. It was just a matter of common sense and cooperation - something that seems to be in short supply with our various government departments - national and local. We did not have D 10's then - but if we had them you can bet your assets that we would have used them.
From what I have read - there are many of the same type situations that were present at the other large fires in Durango CO, and Show Low, AZ.
What this ALL about is "turf" ---- budgets - incompetent bureaucrats - and self "sustaining bureaucracies" - the old pay check thing.
Should someone be held "criminally liable" - you can literally bet your assets again. 100 years ago - you would have found them "hanging" from a tree - that had not burned yet.
You wanted suggestions - this is mine.
Gary Buckland
Rectitudine Sto. 'Pod
Why does that not surprise me? They are merely a mirror image of corporate America who are now struggling to make a profit. Bogged down by bureaucratic BS., decisions being made by managers who are afraid to make decisions without first consulting their superiors and thus creating an atmosphere of an ineffectual cluster %&$*! The ones who know how to truly deal with their problem are hard at work with the shovels.......
If I disapear from FR, its because a can't post in a straight jacket.
It so happened that another truck with a back-hoe in tow came upon the accident a few minutes later. The owner offered to unload the back-hoe and put a line around the fire since it hadn't grown very large at that point. The Marine-Fisheries-Wildlife guy, who was on hand with all the other feckless bureaucrats wouldn't let him because they didn't want vehicle tracks on this pristine wasteland.
The result was that the fire got away, burned over a hundred-thousand acres, twenty some-odd buildings, countless animals and especially elk who were trapped by an elk-fence some 50 miles to the East. Plus, habitat that is just now starting to recover.
So much for the Harvard/Yale educated fools that these bureaucracies hire. Very Stupid!!!!!!
Kinda reminds you of the time they killed a fire crew rather than risk seeing some endangered fishies get sucked up by a water dropping helicopter, don't it?
Turf wars are the most common problem among all federal workers: "Don’t Rock The Boat no matter what!" is the optimum phrase and 'play the game if you want to keep your job.'
I think this is a made for Bill O’Reilly investigation, have mailed him the story. He should start with Sarah Foster, one of World Net Daily’s star investigative reporters. Sarah is no stranger to federal/political screw-ups. Steven Frye just used the ‘cover my a**’ rhetoric, that was to be expected.
However people like Ron Largent, Bill Newman, Tolhurst, Police Chief Gary Hamilton and all the other support groups who answered the call to help their country, should be given a medal for their quick actions. Isn’t it amazing how non-federal citizens in this country can and do get the job at hand done with little or no delay. Refusing their help should send all back to a desk somewhere where they have no further jurisdiction to muddle up what would have been a job well done even down to the agreement that damage to the forest floor would be repaired...for FREE.
Now whose Ox got gored here? Answer: all home owners in the path of this horrific fire...not the environmentalists who are 95% to blame for all the fires this summer and those of the past 12 years for stupid short sightedness and their imbecility towards nature...something they know little about! Klamath Falls and The Elko Nevada fiasco along with countless people being thrown out of work be it ranching, farming or just plain camping on what use to be land belonging to the American People. Now the United Nations along with hundreds of EPA agencies and the federal government control most of it. We’re back to King George.................