"THAT which you believe"---"An open letter to Republicans"

6/23/02 | redrock

[redrock]

"This is free ground. All the way from here to the Pacific Ocean. No man has to bow. No man born to royalty. Here we judge you by what you do, not by who your father was. Here you can be something. Here's a place to build a home. It isn't the land--there's always more land. It's the idea that we all have value, you and me, we're worth something more than the dirt. I never saw dirt I'd die for, but I'm not asking you to come join us and fight for dirt. What we're all fighting for, in the end, is each other."

What is it that you believe???

A real question....since so many times on this forum, and others, the Republican 'mantra' has become a simple one.

Defeat the Democrats..whatever the cost..the Democrats are the enemy...(sort of Orwellian in it's simplicity)..repeated time after time...and anyone who dares to ask questions of George Bush's policies and actions is loudly shouted down.

But here's a 'news flash' for ya.......It may be that the Democratic Senators...Representitives.....leaders ARE the enemy of maintaining a Constitutional Republic.

But...the average member of the Democratic Party...is not.

The average member of the Democratic Party is just brainwashed..(for want of a better word)...

Just like the average member of the Republican Party is in danger of becoming.

"This is a party, this Republican Party, a Party for free men, not for blind followers, and not for conformists. "

So..I'll ask my very simple questions once again......

And Republicans who wish to rant and rave about 'third party' this or that...go right ahead.

But George W. Bush barely won the last election.....

You NEED staunch conservatives ( nowadays I guess we would be considered 'radical'.....) to help re-elect him....and others of the party..

CONVINCE us.........that at a certain point you will be willing to fight for 'old time values'.....

CONVINCE us ...that you have not become slavish followers of GWB...in much the same way as some did with Clinton....that you will ask the 'hard questions' (and demand the answers).

CONVINCE us.......and you will not do so by the constant dismissal of our very real concerns.

CONVINCE us.......

-----------------

So where do we 'draw the line'????

Should we elect rapists or murderers...if they are members of the Republican Party..and could 'help retake the Senate'???

At what point do you say 'this far and no further'???

Must every single American 'prostitute' themselves in order for one political party (one which on CLOSE examination is no different than the other one) to 'control' government???

I have certain values and beliefs...based upon my Belief in God.

Should I just throw those Beliefs and Values away...and close my eyes....just so the Republicans can win???

The basis of this Nation is a hardcore belief that the values and ideals (sorry to use that word..ideals...seems that word anymore has the same effect on Republicans as a Cross does to evil) that founded this Nation are important....

[ImpBill]

You know we could engage in a discussion if you would read what I stated and not puts words in my mouth.

Did I say the GOP was dead?

Did I say they were commies in sheep's clothing?

And I definitely stated I didn't support the Third Party Way. In fact had you been around the forum a bit longer, or bothered to research my views on Pat Buchanan, you might find out that I was one of Pat's greatest detractors.

Did I in any way suggest that you should take any course of action other than supporting a political party of your choice?

NO

I simply stated that I choose not to.

What is it that you would have me do? Really now.

The GOP candidates still will get my vote, more than likely. I just don't feel compelled to any longer associate with the GOP as a member of their party.

Would it make you feel any better/happier if I was suggesting that others follow my lead? Well that is not my purpose in life. Those choices are for each individual to make.

Have I attacked you or any others that have made the choice to remain in the GOP? NO and I won't.

So exactly what is it that is putting this burr in your saddle?

Is there a chance that by having decided that you are a loyal member of the GOP that you have given up the right to be critical of the party and its candidates? Man if that is the case then you do have a huge problem.

I just can't figure out why you take such exception to my choices, and then paint me into some "Third Party Way" kook corner, simply because I have made the choice not to affiliate myself with the GOP in it's present form under it's present leadership.

[thrcanbonly1]

That was not a suggestion for solving the problem, that was an attempt at criticism.

I am sorry you misunderstood my suggestion. It was not intendended as an attempt at criticism. It is something I would suggest to everybody who has more than a passing interest in political philosophy.

If I wanted to criticise you there would be absolutely no ambiguity in my intentions.

[Eagle Eye]

You are absolutely right.

I went to a Dole/Kemp rally. After parking a mile away, standing in line, enduring security, waiting and waiting at the rally, Kemp came out and tuly dissappointed me. He pretty much apologized for the Conservatives and sucked up to the Democrats.

But, like a good, mind-numbed robot, I held my nose and voted for Dole.

Somewhere over the next few years I realized that I would never simply hold my nose and vote for either a party or an individual out of expected loyalty, and I'd not cast a vote for any Republican as a vote against a Democrat. If I can't vote FOR the person or party, I'll vote for someone else or not at all.

[broomhilda]

I believe your question was about government not the Republican party. I think I answered that sufficiently.

[MozarkDawg]

Funny, but I recall being upset when Reagan had to take Bush over Kemp in 80, that deal about how the GOP was so sure we couldn't get Texas without him. I thought, at the time, that Kemp would have been a perfect VP, both he and Reagan had the same economics-philosophy, didn't like Bush calling it "voodoo" add to the fact that Kemp being a former NFL great seemed a good fit with Reagan's Hollywood past.

In later years, I began to wonder ... did Kemp change, or was he always this squishy-in-the-middle guy? I, like you, was severely disappointed in his 96 performance. I question now whether I really should have been, maybe I ought to have known better? Just my ponderings, FWIW.

[DoughtyOne]

I pretty much agree with you. But it will take a lot to get me to vote for him in 2004.

[tricky_k_1972]

I'm am not that upset by people leaving the party. I do get irked when people criticize the GOP and don't give viable suggestions as to a solution for that problem. I and others like me don't leave when we don't get our way. I understand completely that the GOP and GWB have their problems and it is upsetting.

I for one wanted school vouchers so bad I could taste it, I didn't get it and I was upset, but I didn't leave the party over it. I will criticize the party, but I will also supply solutions to the problems as I see them, such as getting control of the Senate. Understand, I believe you have every right to leave the party, and even to criticize that party, but I will defend it which is also my right. It's not a personal attack, don't take it as such.

[ImpBill]

You are correct the House Mangers did an excellent job, at great political risk and should forever be remembered as the true heroes they were and are.

The Senate on the other hand, led by Trent "Caves-A" Lott should be remembered for total failure in any allegiance to their oaths of office. Republican and Democrat Senators alike left a foul stench on our system of governance. They put an exclamation mark behind the age old fact that justice does not apply to the rich and powerful!!!

I would suggest that as the history books are written and the memoirs of the House managers are published you won't find much support for Majority Leader Lott nor many in the U.S. Senate at the time.

And you see, my friend, that is when I made the decision that until the GOP cleans up it's leadership act it no longer needs or is welcomed to any support from me other than a "vote" for their candidates upon election day, should that candidate be the best choice, given my conservative beliefs.

The fact that you are willing to continue in your support of the GOP, is fantastic and isn't it great we live in a land where we both have the freedom to make such choices?

I only wish more Republicans would feel the same way. You know one of the many reasons, I finally left the GOP was that I felt it disingenuous on my part to verbally and financially support people that I so vehemently disagreed with based upon their actions. And yet, many here on the FreeRepublic Forum feel it necessary to take umbrage with those of us that believe in our Constitutional form of republican governance because we don't care to do so as big "R", Republicans. Just what is with that?

Here I am on a thread having posted my agreement to the individual who started the thread by posting to him, finding myself being questioned by folks that I never initiated discourse with in the first place. But such is the risk when making opinions on a public venue.

Perhaps you can shed some light on the thought process involved as to why someone would initiate a difference of opinion with me, by distorting what I state, in the first place?

Better yet just answer me this ... Is it ok that I vote for GOP candidates and yet not wish to belong to the Grand Old Party? Or would you and others feel better if since I no longer support the same political party you do, that I just give up my right to vote for the candidate of MY choice regardless of party affiliation?

Anyway, you certainly have the last word coming. Have a great day!

[JZoback]

Now I just want my freedom back.

The(D) or the (R) party have very little interest in giving that back to us any time soon

[redrock]

"The average democrat has no idea what a Constitutional Republic is.."

True...but then neither does the average Republican.

So...how do we go about teaching them?????

DO we show them that values and morals are important...and a much needed commodity in KEEPING a Constitutinal Republic???

redrock

[thrcanbonly1]

"Republicans believe that government should be limnited to doing for people those things which they cannot do for themselves.

OK. I will be more specific. What things do Republicans believe should be done by the Federal Government. Or what do Republicans believe people are not capable of doing for themselves.

[ImpBill]

"The reason we get upset is because we need people like you in the party."

I don't know if I would go that far. Really, I am not that important. But you make a good point, especially if indeed many, such as myself are no longer financially supporting the GOP, but I really don't think that is the case.

Listen my friend the GOP will do quite well without me. Perhaps even better. I believe I am an anachronistic old fart that naively still believes in the Constitution as it was written.

I am glad you are a passionate "young Republican". The party needs you and more like you.

And who knows, perhaps someday I will become actively involved with GOP politics again. All it takes is for me to send them a check and trust me they will have me on every mailing list so fast. I am cynical friend, as I really do believe the folks at the national level of the GOP don't give a whit about me or my political beliefs. All they really care about is my money and my vote in that order.

They still have my vote, but these days when I vote it is with a voter registration that reads - "Party Affiliation - NONE".

Just remember and please don't cast all of us that lost faith in the Republican Political Party, as people that somehow are to be reckoned with and treated as 3rd Party kooks. And truly be known, most of the conservatives that left the GOP for 3rd Parties in the first place really are patriotic, conservative folks that came to the same conclusion as I. The "Party" as lead just doesn't lead from conservative principle any longer, IN MY OPINION!

And just like Dennis Miller, I could be wrong. In fact the older I get the more I realize that I have been wrong many times.

[Ragin1]

He's not high strung. This is what he objected to.

Republicans voting not guilty:

Art. 1

Chafee, John (R-RI)
Collins, Susan (R-ME)
Gorton, Slade (R-WA)
Jeffords, Jim (R-VT)
Shelby, Richard (R-AL)
Snowe, Olympia (R-ME)
Specter, Arlen (R-PA) [Voted "Not Proved"]
Stevens, Ted (R-AK)
Thompson, Fred (R-TN)
Warner, John (R-VA)

Art. 2

Chafee, John (R-RI)
Collins, Susan (R-ME)
Jeffords, Jim (R-VT)
Snowe, Olympia (R-ME)
Specter, Arlen (R-PA) [Voted "Not Proved"]

I'll never vote for a Republican again.

[thrcanbonly1]

I could be wrong. In fact the older I get the more I realize that I have been wrong many times.

That is the cruel irony of experience, you don't get it until AFTER you need it.

[redrock]

The first Presidential campaign I worked on was Goldwater's.....when I was a little tyke of 10.

I have been active in politics ever since......and I was a member of the Republican Party up until a few years ago when, to paraphrase Reagan,..."I didn't leave my party...they left me."

redrock

[redrock]

"Folks, we need to find some common ground."

Needs to be repeated often....

redrock

[Ken H]

How about 50 different systems for health, energy, etc. and see what works best. (approximate quote)

Excellent points and that is what the Tenth Amendment requires.

The severity of the current wildfires is an example of a "one size fits all" Federal environmental policy which led to an environmental disaster.

IMO, Federal management of education over the last several decades has led to an educational disaster. It is to the point where just about everyone who is able to, gets out of the public system and into private or homeschooling.

I'd like to see a Thatcheresque solution to the problem. Just like Margaret Thatcher placed nationalized industries into private hands, the Federal government should divest itself of domestic agencies not authorized by the Constitution. It should do so in a timely and orderly manner to allow State governments to set policies in those areas. Federal Taxes should be reduced accordingly.

50 Republics governing their domestic affairs in unique ways, all protected and constrained by the Constitution, would work if given the chance.

[redrock]

Thanks my friend for a good thoughtful answer.

I appreciate it.

me

[redrock]

You and I left the Party about the same time...and pretty much for the same reasons.

Funny thing in politics....we keep getting told that we need to compromise on important issues...when the most succesful leaders of our Nation...didn't.

redrock

It MATTERS....taking and holding the high moral ground.

[redrock]

"The legacy of those "principled conservatives" who broke from the GOP in 1992 to stand by their convictions, will forever be known as the Clinton presidency."

Now Luis....you know that is one of the biggest lies in modern political history.

MOST of the people who voted for Perot....weren't going to vote until Perot came along.

He got some of the disaffected voters into the booth.

George 'read my lips' Bush....just ran a lousy campaign...and was not a very exciting candidate.

red-Wouldn't be prudent-rock