Question about the OKC bombing and the latest Al Qaeda guy caught at O Hare.

06/10/02 | TMMT

[The Magical Mischief Tour]

Question about the OKC bombing and the latest Al Qaeda guy caught at O’Hare.

Can someone post a side-by-side comparison of the “Arab” John Doe sketch from the OKC bombing and the sketch released today of the Al Qaeda guy nabbed at O’Hare, please.

It may be just me but at a glance they look similar.

TMMT

[thinden]

thanx. I've saved that dude on my home box, unfortunately, I ain't home now or I could hep with the URL.

in any case, this makes for a timely comparison of the two suspected JD2's on the same thread.

[PJ-Comix]

I would like to know if there are any pics of Padilla circa April 1995. That would help answer questions as to hair length and style.

[antivenom]

Probably are...the FBI/CIA are in the classic "Clinton Era Cover-up mode". We will soon learn that TWA 800 WAS taken down with a smuggled missle too.

The DEM chant "Who Knew What and When" is about to come back and bite them in the butt!

[PJ-Comix]

Was John Doe #2 described as being swarthy?

[PJ-Comix]

Puerto rican Spanish is spoken faster than Mexican Spanish. It does sound different.

Unintelligible. Sorry I couldn't help it but native Spanish speakers will tell you the same thing about Puerto Rican Spanish. The best spoken Spanish to me is that spoken in Uruguay and Argentina. Very easy to understand.

[archy]

Do you remember how many witnesses contributed to the composite sketch?

Nichols' defense raises specter of John Doe No. 2

The sketch of John Doe No. 2

Latest developments:

Defense suggests someone else helped McVeigh
Witnesses: Truck seen a day early

Maid saw Hispanic man

December 2, 1997

Web posted at: 10:54 p.m. EST (0354 GMT)

DENVER (CNN) -- Lawyers for Terry Nichols launched their defense of the Oklahoma City bombing suspect Tuesday by raising the possibility that it was someone else who participated in the bombing with Timothy McVeigh.

Shortly after the prosecution rested its case, defense lawyers presented a witness with a sketch of a man identified as John Doe No. 2.

The sketch was created shortly after the bombing and was purported to be a man seen with McVeigh when he rented the Ryder truck used in the bombing. The man was the subject of a manhunt after the bombing, but was never found.

Lea McGown, the owner of the Dreamland Motel in Junction City, Kansas, couldn't identify the man in the sketch.

She did say, however, that she rented McVeigh a room the weekend before the bombing and heard him talking with one or two people in his room one night.

She couldn't identify McVeigh's visitors, but did remember seeing McVeigh with a large Ryder rental truck.

In McVeigh's trial, prosecutors said the man in the sketch was not involved in the bombing, but Nichols' attorneys disagree.

Witnesses: Truck seen a day early

McVeigh was convicted in the bombing and sentenced to death and is awaiting the outcome of his appeal.

Nichols is accused of stealing explosives from a Kansas quarry, robbing an Arkansas gun collector to finance the bombing and purchasing two tons of ammonium nitrate fertilizer -- the key bomb ingredient. If convicted, Nichols, 42, also could face a death sentence.

The defense also took aim at the prosecution's chronology as to when McVeigh rented the truck and the people he was seen with.

The government maintains that McVeigh rented the truck in Junction City two days before the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building was bombed on April 19, 1995.

McGown

But McGown and another witness say the truck was seen at the Dreamland Motel three days before the bombing.

"Mrs. McGown said it doesn't make sense that Mr. McVeigh rented the truck on Monday morning if the truck was here on Sunday," said Herta King, quoting her friend McGown about when the truck was spotted.

McGown testified that she could not remember whether she first saw the Ryder truck two or three days before the bombing.

Under questioning from defense attorney Ron Woods, however, McGown admitted that she had told a grand jury and law enforcement officials that she saw a Ryder truck on Easter Sunday, April 16, three days before the bombing.

Under cross examination, she added that because her motel is near Fort Riley, she has many guests who stay at the motel who use rental trucks to move household goods.

Maid saw Hispanic man

A maid at the motel said she saw the truck parked at the motel hours before the government contends it was rented. She also said she saw a Hispanic man walking toward the truck, the man the defense claims was John Doe No. 2.

McGown and the maid both said they did not see Nichols at the motel.

Before beginning its case, the defense moved for dismissal of the charges, saying the prosecution hadn't proved Nichols intended to kill anyone. Judge Richard Matsch denied the motion, saying, "In my view of the case, the jury could make such a finding" that Nichols was involved in a conspiracy to commit the bombing.

The prosecution rested its case earlier in the day after calling a total of 98 witnesses in 20 days of testimony.

The last government witness was Marine Capt. Matt Cooper, who survived the bombing and told about its impact. Two of his colleagues, Ben Davis and Randy Guzman, were killed in the bombing. Guzman's brother, Rudy, wept during the testimony.

[GuillermoX]

Wasnt Padilla in Jail april 1995?? I could be wrong

[Mo1]

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[_Jim]

Do any of you people feel like opening up the John Wilkes Booth case again?

I've got info here that indicates a 'John Doe' was seen leaving the theater shortly after the shots were fired ...

[_Jim]

We will soon learn that TWA 800 WAS taken down with a smuggled missle too.

Setting ANYTHING off like a missile isn't like lighting-off a bottle rocket-

- it requires ground/platform support gear and TRAINED personnel, power, etc ...

But of course, ANYTHING is possible on FR where *magically* things just 'work' without any supporting or external systems and regardless of the physics involved ...

In kids we call that playing 'make believe'.

[SheLion]

Your right about the police sketch being only as good as the person describing. But it is eery.

Maybe we are just HOPING he is the one. How someone can just disappear in this day and age is beyond me.........

[cgk]

Apparently he was incarcerated in the early 90's:

Dirty Bomb Suspect Was a Teenage Killer

Excerpt:
CHICAGO (Reuters) - Abdullah al Muhajir, a U.S. citizen of Puerto Rican descent, had an extensive criminal record, including committing murder at age 13, long before being arrested as a suspected al Qaeda operative in an alleged plot to detonate a radioactive "dirty bomb," authorities have said.

Muhajir, 31, was a street gang member in Chicago who got into trouble with the law early and often, law enforcement officials said. He spent time in juvenile detention in the 1980s in Chicago with a murder conviction, and was behind bars in Florida in the early 1990s in connection with an assault charge, the officials said.

Authorities said Muhajir left the United States in 1998 from Florida.

That begs another question: WHY did he have a US passport if he was a convicted felon? Any Constitutional experts out there? I thought that was an automatic lost "freedom", much like perjury convictions automatically taking away your right to carry a handgun/vote. Am I mistaken?

Mrs Kus

[cgk]

Apparently he was incarcerated in the early 90's:

Dirty Bomb Suspect Was a Teenage Killer

Excerpt:
CHICAGO (Reuters) - Abdullah al Muhajir, a U.S. citizen of Puerto Rican descent, had an extensive criminal record, including committing murder at age 13, long before being arrested as a suspected al Qaeda operative in an alleged plot to detonate a radioactive "dirty bomb," authorities have said.

Muhajir, 31, was a street gang member in Chicago who got into trouble with the law early and often, law enforcement officials said. He spent time in juvenile detention in the 1980s in Chicago with a murder conviction, and was behind bars in Florida in the early 1990s in connection with an assault charge, the officials said.

Authorities said Muhajir left the United States in 1998 from Florida.

That begs another question: WHY did he have a US passport if he was a convicted felon? Any Constitutional experts out there? I thought that was an automatic lost "freedom", much like perjury convictions automatically taking away your right to carry a handgun/vote. Am I mistaken?

Mrs Kus

[cgk]

Sorry about the double post...

:( Mrs Kus

[cgk]

Chicago Sun-Times article this morning has Padilla in Afghanistan and Pakistan at some point in the early 90's. I suspect he attended one or more of the Islamists' training camps between '93 and '95.

I just posted (see this reply's source) another source saying Padilla was in jail in the early 90's and he left the US in 98. Don't you also wish we had all the facts given to us correctly? It's very confusing.

Mrs Kus

[SerpentDove]

The thing is, they were tailing this guy; they didn't just "bump" into him. Maybe some informers tipped them off and this IS the guy. Coooool.

[SerpentDove]

>> Very, very good catch. The only major difference is the chin.<<

A police sketch is done from someone's description of the suspect. This one is REALLY a close match IMHO.

[mistaken1]

FYI Your 170

IIRC the US provided a number of these to the Afghani forces when they were fighting the soviets. The weapons were in Afghanistan, trained personnel were there as well. All that is needed is a boat off the east coast, launch one missile and dump the launcher over the side. Due to the limited range if it were to be employed against an airliner it would have to be during takeoff or landing. Plausible.

The Stinger Missile System

Stinger

---

The Stinger is a man-portable, shoulder-fired, infra-red (IR) homing (heat seeking) air defense guided missile. The Stinger is the only forward area air defense missile currently employed by US forces. The Stinger is designed to counter high-speed, low-level, ground attack aircraft.

The Stinger employs a unique Rosette Scan Pattern image scanning technique that allows it to discriminate among targets, flares, and background clutter. The Stinger is also unique in that it possesses the Target Adaptive Guidance (TAG) technique which biases missile orientation toward vulnerable portions of the aircraft and assures maximized lethality. This superior lethality is derived from hit-to-kill accuracy, high warhead lethality, and the impact force of Stinger's kinetic energy generated by speeds of up to Mach 2.0.

The Stinger also possesses characteristics favorable to today's force projection Army. The Stinger is highly deployable because it is a lightweight, self-contained air defense system that can be rapidly deployed on many military platforms in any combat situation. The Stinger's Fire-And-Forget ability also increases the survivability of its crew. Stinger's Fire-And-Forget technology allows gunners and platforms to take cover or engage new targets immediately after firing. The Stinger Missile also has a low life-cycle cost. The Stinger is issued as a certified round of ammunition, so it requires no field maintenance or associated logistical costs.

The two most popular forms of the Stinger are the Manportable Air Defense System (MANPADS) and the Standard Vehicle Mounted Launcher (SVML). The MANPADS system weighs 34.5 pounds and consists of the missile, disposable launch tube, detachable gripstock, and integral IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) system. A MANPADS crew consists of a crew chief, gunner, and vehicle carrying the basic load of missiles. The MANPADS is currently fielded by all US forces.

The Standard Vehicle Mounted Launcher (SVML) contains four ready-to-fire Stingers. The Army's Bradley Stinger Fighting Vehicle (BSFV) provides a highly lethal weapons system that utilizes the SVML. The Bradley Stinger Fighting Vehicle provides the maneuver force with a potent air defense weapon to augment the combined arms team.

The Stinger Missile System has been proven in combat in both Afghanistan, and in the Persian Gulf. In Afghanistan the basic Stinger downed over 270 Soviet aircraft (a 79% combat success rate), and helped to stop air assault operations and force Soviet withdrawal. Current Stinger enhancements are underway to ensure the Stinger's ability to defeat any enemy threat well into the next century.

Stinger Missile Specifications

Specifications

Guidance	Passive IR/UV Homing - Fire and Forget
Navigation	Proportional with Lead Bias
Speed	Supersonic
Weight	23.0 lbs
Diameter	2.75 inches
Length	60 inches
Range	4 kilometers
Identification Friend or Foe	Compatible with US/NATO Equipment

---

Prepared by West Point Cadet Bryan Cofer condensed from: Stinger: Family of Weapons Systems, by the Hughes Missile Systems Company.

[Burkeman1]

The links of McVeigh to Islamic extremists was detailed by National Journal I think (hardly a "conspiracy" journal.) Me suspects that Jose was picked up because the FBI already knew this. Me suspects that the Clinton Administration knew about McVeigh's Islamic trainers and covered it up since it didn't fit his "right winger" blame game that he so shamelessly played after the OKC bombing. Let us all remember that McVeigh was tried and executed in record time- and before Clinton was out of office.

[buffyt]

The eyes on the right are exactly alike. The ones on the left are only slightly different. I wonder if anyone can put a hat on the new bomber, like the hat the OKC John Doe wore???