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Taxation is Theft
sourcery | 15 April 2002 | sourcery

Posted on 04/16/2002 2:29:49 AM PDT by sourcery

 Taxation Is Theft

What is the moral justification for taxation?  What gives the government the right to collect taxes by force, whether force of law or force of arms--which in the end amount to the same thing?

The coerced collection of taxes is allegedly justified by four arguments--all of which are demonstrably false:

1. The "majority rules" argument: The majority in a society has the right to impose its will on the minority, either absolutely, or within the limits prescribed by a Constitution.

The refutation: It's been said that a democracy is where two wolves and a sheep vote on what (or who) is for dinner. The moral to be understood from this is that a vote by the wolfish majority to have the sheepish minority for dinner does not justify violating the rights of the sheep to life, liberty and property. By the same reasoning,  just because a majority votes to put those who don't "voluntarily" pay taxes in jail does not make it morally right.

The "majority rules" argument is based on the false premise that what just one of your neighbors would not have the right to do--appropriate your property using unjustified coercive force--society as a whole (who are just the aggregation of all your neighbors) somehow magically is morally justified in doing. Were this so, what principle would limit it just to taxes, or to just those things allowed by a Constitution?  Where did society get the authority to use a Constitution to give its agent, the government, powers that none of the individuals in the society possess by themselves as single individuals?

If your neighbor does not have the right to force you to be his slave, could it be that two of your neighbors have this right? If not two, then what about 1000 of your neighbors? 10,000 neighbors? 100,000 neighbors? 250,000,000 neighbors? Everyone living on the same continent?  What gives a group (or a society, or its agent, a government) any right to act that any individual member of the group would not have? Rights are not additive: two people who form a group have no more rights than either one has separately. The rights of any group, even society as whole, are simply the union of the rights of all the individuals in the group. It therefore necessarily follows that a group cannot have any rights that any individual member of the group does not also have. So if your neighbor has no just right to simply take from you whatever he or she wants, then neither do any group of neighbors--not even the entire society.

The conclusion is inescapable: you don't owe taxes merely because one or more of your neighbors say you do. I don't have the right to take your property without your consent.  Therefore, no group of people has the right to take your property without your consent--no matter how many people are in the group, nor how many of them vote in favor.

2. The "debt for services rendered and benefits received" argument: Government provides benefits and services. The recipients of said benefits and services owe the government something of value in exchange.  Furthermore, society is entitled to a "payback from," or "return on its investment in," each member of the society, and a "return on its investment" in the infrastructure of the society, payable as "dividends" from the earnings of the individuals who live in and benefit from the society and its infrastructure.

The refutation: The argument is flawed in several ways. Firstly, it falsely assumes that a valid debt is created whenever someone receives either direct (or collateral) benefit(s) as a result of actions voluntarily performed by someone else--even when the person receiving the benefit(s) did not consent to the creation of a debt, and even when the person performing the action(s) was largely motivated to perform those actions in his own self interest and for his own benefit.  Secondly, it falsely assumes that every taxpayer was a willing participant in a commercial transaction, where he agreed to pay a freely-negotiated price for some service or benefit. Thirdly, it falsely assumes that the amount of tax a taxpayer is assessed is reasonably proportionate to the market value of the services or benefits he received. Finally, the argument falsely assumes that a debt can convey an equity interest in the life, property, or profits of the debtor, without the debtor having consented to the granting of any such equity interest.

It is admittedly possible to accrue a debt without having first consented thereto: such a debt automatically accrues when the debtor causes harm to the life, liberty or property of someone else without valid cause (the only valid cause that comes to mind would be acting in justified self defense).  But other than this one exception (infringing on someone else's rights without his or her consent), debts cannot be justly created without the consent of the debtor.

Therefore, you don't owe anyone anything for those things that someone else voluntarily chooses to do without your consent to pay for them.  Conversely, you have no right to coerce payment from others who have not consented to pay you for the value of the work you voluntarily choose to do that happens to benefit them. 

Even more ludicrous is the idea that you owe anyone anything in exchange for the collateral benefits you may receive as a consequence of actions performed by others.  If I choose to build a dam for the twin purposes of generating electricity and controlling floods, solely because the dam benefits me (I make money selling the electricity, and my home is made safer against the threat of flooding), then why should the fact that your home also is made safer against the threat of flooding entitle me to send you an invoice for any part of the cost of building the dam?  I would have built the dam whether or not you benefited from it, and whether or not you agreed to pay anything for the privilege of benefiting from the dam.

If you benefit from what someone else has voluntarily done, and have not agreed to provide compensation, then you have no more obligation to pay than does the receiver of any other gift.  As long as we do not violate the rights of others, each of us may do—or not do—as we please.   If we do not like the fact that what we voluntarily choose to do happens to also benefit others, our only morally-correct remedy is to refrain from doing such things. If you think otherwise, go sweep the street clean and then send an invoice to the city—or to your neighbors—for the hours worked.  Good luck.

Typically, the amount of tax assessed is not reasonably equivalent to the fair market value of the services provided. One important reason that this is true is because the amount of tax that is assessed is not negotiated between "buyer" and "seller" in a free market.  Both overcharging and underpaying for goods or services makes one party a thief and the other party the victim of a crime.

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The debt you owe to a lienholder does not entitle the lienholder to an equity interest in your life, in your property, and/or in the fruits of your labor.  If you think otherwise, try billing (or even suing) your employer for a percentage of profits in lieu of salary, without his prior agreement.  Good luck.

3. The "social contract" argument: A society has the right to dictate to all members of (or residents in) the society what each individual must contribute (or "give back") in exchange for being allowed to live in, and/or be a member of, and/or receive benefits and services from, the society.  By agreeing to live in a society, an individual is deemed to have "consented" to this "social contract."

The refutation: This argument is based on the false premise that "society" as a whole has a right to coerce consent to debts as a condition for being "allowed" to be a member of the overall society.  

A society is just a group of people who interact.  It has no more rights or powers than does any one of its members.  Therefore, unless some individual member of a society has the right to coerce other members of the society to agree to conditions in exchange for membership in the society, then it cannot be that the society as a whole has any such right.

It's true that an individual has the right to refuse to interact with any other individual. However, each adult only has the right to make such decisions for himself, not for other adults.  Therefore, even though 67% of the citizens of a particular community do not wish to interact with a particular person, the remaining 33% would still have the right to do so, if that is their wish.

No person, or group of persons, has the right to prevent any two adults from interacting, as long as both adults freely choose to do so. It therefore follows that the only way that an individual can morally be denied permission to be a member of society as a whole, is for all the other members of the society to unanimously (and permanently) refuse to interact with him or her. Therefore, society as a whole has no right to demand that individuals agree to conditions in exchange for being allowed to participate in the society--because society has no right to prevent free association (or interaction) among consenting adults. You have the right to interact socially, economically and politically with anyone who is also willing to interact with you, regardless of how many third parties may object.

In fact, the only way that someone could be expelled from society would be to violate the rights of the one expelled.  Society would have to kill the person, and/or steal his property, and/or forbid him the right to live on his property, and/or interdict his right to contract with others for a place to live and/or to produce income, and/or violate his right to travel.  No one has the right to deny anyone the right to live, to own property, to travel, to engage in commercial transactions with others who are willing, or to do anything whatsoever so long as no else&#8217;s rights are being violated. Therefore, society has no right to do any of these things, and so it therefore has no right to threaten to do them unless individuals agree to be taxed.  Such a proposition would be extortion&#8212;a fancy word for theft.

You have inalienable rights because you are a person, not because you agree to pay taxes.  To make the free exercise of your rights contingent on the payment of taxes converts inalienable human rights into privileges that must be purchased.  That way lies slavery.

Society is an epiphenomenon that emerges from the actions and interactions of the individuals of which it is composed.  Society is thus a creation and manifestation of its members, who are therefore its rightful masters.  To posit instead that society rightfully owns and controls the individuals who are its members wrongfully makes each individual a slave to the group.  Others do not own you just because you interact with them. Neither do you own others because they interact with you.  Therefore, society does not own you because you live in it.

It must also be noted that the so-called "social contract" is not properly a "contract" at all.  At no time are individuals ever told what are the conditions of the "social contract" to which they must agree.  At no time are individuals ever asked to formally agree to the terms of this alleged contract.  I have never agreed to any such contract, and I strongly doubt that anyone who ever reads this essay has ever done so, either.  The alleged "social contract" is therefore nothing more than a fictitious "blank check," drawn on the life, liberty and property of the enslaved population, that those in power can cash in any amount that suits them, at any time&#8212;again and again.

4. The "moral debt to those in need" argument: Those who have more than they need are morally obligated to provide for those who have less--and it is a necessary and proper function of government to make sure that the "haves" contribute their "fair share" to the "have nots."  Therefore, the needs of society for the services and benefits of government outweigh the property rights of individuals.

The refutation: This argument is based on the false premise that the needs of one person constitute a moral debt or lien on the life, property or liberty of someone else. This is a wide-spread, but very dangerous, fallacy. No such principle can be morally justified, because it inevitably leads to logical contradictions that destroy individual life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is maliciously inimical to the very foundations of freedom.

Obviously, if I give (almost) everything I have to charity (or to taxes), then I become the "needy" person, and can then "rightfully" (sic) demand "help" from others.  Just by having less, and doing less productive work, I can "create a moral obligation" (sic) for others to provide for my needs.  As a result, those of you willing to work become the slaves of those of us willing to leach off the efforts of others.  But the resulting "negative feedback loop" must eventually lead to social, moral and economic decay.

To make each individual responsible for meeting the needs of others would have the following consequences:

<![if !supportLists]>a)     <![endif]>The individual would become a slave to all those with greater need,

<![if !supportLists]>b)     <![endif]>The principle of "moral risk" would result in many people failing to act responsibly with respect to their own welfare and best interests, and

<![if !supportLists]>c)     <![endif]>The "haves" would use the fact that they are coerced into supporting the "have nots" to impose laws and regulations restricting everyone's freedom&#8212;on the grounds that social welfare paid for by coercive tax collection gives the taxpayers a legitimate stake in preventing citizens from making poor life choices.

Down this path lies tyranny.

Fundamentally, neither my needs, nor someone else's needs, justify coerced taking from others. Just because I need a heart transplant does not justify my taking your heart without permission. Just because my neighbor needs food to eat does not justify either of us taking from you the food you need to feed your family. Just because I and my family need a place a live does not justify my evicting you and your family from your apartment. Need is not a valid or workable basis by which to assign ownership of property. You are not a slave to my needs, nor am I a slave to yours.

The principle that your life, liberty and property belong only to you, and that you have no obligation to give them to others, and cannot rightfully be coerced into doing so, is the foundation of freedom.  Any society that violates this principle makes slaves out of its members.

You should not be responsible for the consequences of my actions and decisions, and I should not be responsible for the consequences of yours. Each person must be fully and solely responsible for the consequences of the way he/she lives his/her life.   

If you wish to feel guilty because you are able and willing to earn a living, that's your affair. If you wish to donate some or all of what you have to others, that's your affair. Nothing prevents you from giving as much as you like to the charities of your choice. But you have no right to select the charities that others must contribute to, nor to specify the amount or percentage of their charitable giving. If you did, then they would have the same right with respect to you, and you might not like their choices!

No one has the right to be "generous" (sic) with other people's money without their permission. That's not generosity--it's theft.

Working to support yourself and your family is not immoral. Expecting to receive the full benefit of the work you do is not immoral. Expecting others not to steal from you is not immoral. Your hard work helps both yourself, your family, your community, your country and the world at large.  You owe no one any debt merely for having worked to accumulate property, nor for having done productive work.

Conclusion

The fact that your neighbors have voted in a law that says you owe taxes does not mean that you do, because others have no right to take your property without your consent. 

The fact that you benefit from the operation of government does not mean you owe taxes, because no moral debt can be created without either your consent or your misbehavior. 

The fact that you are allowed to operate as a member of society does not mean that you can be construed to have agreed to pay taxes in exchange, because a) you have not in fact agreed to any such contract, b) you have the right to interact (and do business with) anyone else who is willing, and c) no one has the right to violate your rights, or make the enjoyment of your rights contingent on the payment of a fee.

The fact that there are those whose needs are greater or more dire than yours does not mean you owe any taxes, because you are no one&#8217;s slave, no matter how needy they may be.


TOPICS: Philosophy; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: morality; taxation
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To: Cultural Jihad
If they really think that they're slaves, why don't they leave the plantation?
101 posted on 04/18/2002 12:36:19 AM PDT by Roscoe
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Comment #102 Removed by Moderator

To: Roscoe
You aren't under any obligation to remain within our society.

True. I'm also under no moral obligation to leave, whether nor not I pay taxes, and whether or not I am a citizen of any particular country.

103 posted on 04/18/2002 2:12:48 AM PDT by sourcery
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To: sourcery
We are morally enjoined to help those in need--the lazy are not in need, they are in need of instruction. Which is, of course, not to say that it is morally justifiable (though it may be) nor prudent (which I am willing to say it is not) to take from one and give to one more in need. But take care not to cut the branch out from under you.
104 posted on 04/18/2002 2:19:27 AM PDT by Pistias
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To: timm22
I know that your argument is based on morality, and not economics, but I'd like to know if you think it is possible to overcome the "free-rider" problem of voluntarily funded government services.

Morally speaking, there is no free rider problem. Here's why not:

The fact that the 'free rider problem' may make it uneconomic to achieve one's goals is not a problem in the domain of morality. The universe does not guarantee anyone that any of their goals will be realizable, or realizable at any particular cost. Violating someone else's rights is not morally justified by need, no matter how urgent.

Taxation (or whatever) cannot be morally justified by economic considerations, any more than slavery or cannibalism can.

105 posted on 04/18/2002 2:34:46 AM PDT by sourcery
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To: Pistias
It is necessary to distinguish between that which is morally required, that is which morally permitted, and that which is in one's rational self-interest. Helping those in need is not morally required. It is morally permissible. And it is in a person's rational self interest to show the same empathy for others, that one would like to experience from others. This can be seen by considering the principle of reciprocity, the power of cooperation, and the probable consequences of a complete lack of empathy or compassion in society.
106 posted on 04/18/2002 2:43:48 AM PDT by sourcery
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To: sourcery
"Taxation Is Theft"

Of course it is. It's no different than if a robber came up to you and threatened bodily harm if you didn't turn over your money. The only difference between government and the robber is the government says it's legal.

Carolyn

107 posted on 04/18/2002 2:55:03 AM PDT by CDHart
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To: sourcery
it is in a person's rational self interest to show the same empathy for others, that one would like to experience from others.

That no longer holds if one can be cruel without being seen for what one is--then it is one's rational self-interest to screw whatever poor sod's unfortunate enough to need one's help.

Helping those in need is not morally required

Things that are required incur a penalty--most often in the form of reprobation--if not done, correct? Do we not (justly) call a man cruel who gives no aid to a starving child or a person drowning in a river, especially when such aid is easily within his power?

108 posted on 04/18/2002 3:00:34 AM PDT by Pistias
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To: sourcery

So, if I create a trust out of my own property, that gives me the right to tax you?

Only if I accept being a beneficiary of the trust.

I disagree.

Based on what? You have a right to offer the trust. What supermajority has ratified it? If I don't like the terms I renounce the benifice and go my merry way.

But if you think otherwise, the tax bill for this year that you owe to the trust I've set up is $50,000, payable immediately.

What does it offer me in protection and service that I don't already have under the Constitution of the United States and what provision are in it? How am I better off?

Show us the trust document, and go through the ratification process for adoption and we'll see. Otherwise, I simply renounce your "gift" and stay with what I have, the Constitution of the United States.

I think the Founders would be shocked to discover, that their Constitution, whose purpose was to form a government for the purpose of protecting and defending the rights of the people (including the rights to Life, Libery and Property,) was in fact nothing more than a stealth taking of all property from all private individuals, with the effect that the government would be the de facto owner.

They were well aware of the extensive powers of the taxing clauses. Looking over the debates, they were quite aware of the broad extent of the Constitution's powers to tax the individual and Madison among others argued specifically to assure those powers had no boundries in amount. Interesting that they proposed and ratified it to tax as much as necessary to assure the continued survival of the nation, isn't it.

Also, I don't see any documentation from 1789 (or any time, for that matter) that actually sets up a trust such as you describe

Constitution for the United States of America:

It certainly is not a contract.

It's true that a club can set whatever conditions for membership that it wants, so long as there is nothing about those conditions that would be intrinsically wrong morally. This follows from the right to Liberty, which is the right to do whatever is not morally wrong.

Sorry the Constitution is not a Club. A measure of morality? Which measure do you intend to adopt. Christian?, Moslem?, Hindu? Jewish?, Buddist?, Zorastrian? Humanist? Agnostic?, Atheist? Communist? Third Reich? ...

Better leave it to a least a supermajority ratification of charter members to kick it off the launch pad.

sending armed men to your home and evicting you from your community, on the grounds that only members of the chess club can live in the community?

The community was established under the charter of the Trust (i.e. Constitution). Sorry your analogy simply does not fly. You are provided an all expense paid vacation at club Fed by operation of law under due process instead if you decide to stick around but don't pay the dues.

If you don't like that you may renounce membership and depart the jurisdiction.

By what right does the club do either of these things?

The Constitution is not your club. Your hypotheticals fail to meet the conditions of a ratifiable trust charter thus do not fall within the parameters of a reasonable conjecture. Quit throwing up meaningless strawmen arguments.

My problem with the US tax situation is precisely analagous to the problem you would have with the chess club in the example.

No parallel exists, your chess club is an unratifiable imaginary hypothetical strawman with no existence in reality. Anyone can construct there own tightly constrained hypotheticals all day and shoot them down. That establishes nothing more than your imaginative abilities.

Therefore, the US has no moral right to remove me from my own land

Sorry but a tax debt is as valid as any other kind of debt, if you are unable to pay such debts then a sale of property can be morally ordered under due process and there is certainly a moral right to remove from you any possessions sufficient to service a debt owed.

So my apparent continued "acceptance" of the club's rules is invalid, because it is coerced by the threat of having my inalienable right to Liberty, Free Association and Property violated (in other words, by extortion).

Again you have tried to use a strawman argument to bluff your way through.

The only threat that arose was out of your decision to not renounce citizenship and still expect to not pay the tax. Due process under the provisions of the trust charter set the ultimate and predictable result. Be current in your debts, then renounce your membership and depart, no problem other than those you have created for yourself by make illconsidered decisions in your attempt to extract more than is due you under the Trust provisions.

They certainly had the Liberty right to create a trust. They didn't, though.

The Constitution certainly is not a contract. By your own arguments and admission.

Trust or Will is all that remains. Which is it? The qualities of the Constitution are those of a charter, establishing the provisions of a Trust. Your mere assertion otherwise, is neither useful to the debate nor consistent with your own arguments.

But even if they had, they still would have no right to do what is morally wrong--

True, but the only practical measure of moral is the supermajority ratification of chartermembers.

such as violating the rights to Liberty, Free Association and Property

Such rights pertain to the charter provisions governing the protection of rights through trial and due process.

of those who don't care to be beneficiaries of such a trust

Those who don't care to be beneficiaries simple recind any protection by the trust. Sorry but that is life.

(or members of the club, which is a more accurate analogy of what actually pertains).

The strawman doesn't fly.

The only right they didn't have, was to violate the rights of others.

Shall we look then at whose rights you intrude on in attempting to demand protections as one who has renounced protections of the Trust?

What right do have as an alien to the trust to call upon the trust member's consideration or concern in jury. That certainly is an imposition on those citizens for one who has renounced participation in the provisions of the Trust. Due process is a function of the established trust. The courts and rules therefore are provided in the trust. The members operate in accord with provisions of that trust and fund those operations through the trust provisions of taxation.

When you stand outside the trust jurisdiction, you have your rights, but it is incumbant upon you to protect them.

Liberty? As long as a warlord with a bigger guns and a gang doesn't want something from you.

Property? As long as you can protect it from the wolves circling round.

Life? You might get to keep it if your strong enough, or run fast enough giving up the other two to the wolves. Then it only becomes a matter of how long you survive, knowing you cannot impose on the rights of the members of the trust.

The society you renounced owes you nothing. The wolves are always there, circling, and they care not for your "Rights" only their own personal gain.

I see the Constitution as the deed of title whereby those who voted in favor in 1789 granted certain authority to a designated agent for certain specified purposes.

And how does this concept of "deed of title" of yours differ from the charter of a trust? Descriptively I see a trust charter being described, with a name substitution which apparently pleases your fancy. A rose by any other name is still a rose.

On what resource has that agent been specifically authorised to draw on to facilitate the exercise of that authority and pay the debts and incurred costs advancing those certain specified purposes appropriately.

I will offer you a moral reason for taxation of each and every citizen;

To appraise the electorate of the true burdens of their demands for largess or more from government, that the historical imperative of Tytler may be impeded:

Sir Alex Fraser Tytler (1742-1813). Scottish jurist and historian:

Without that substantive and necessary feedback of the cost of general government operating in common, and introduced into, the life of each citizen, the electorate cannot and will not excerise due diligence or that Eternal Vigilance that is their duty and obligation to preserve Liberty, or any other rights.

109 posted on 04/18/2002 4:28:02 AM PDT by ancient_geezer
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To: jrherreid
Ookay--so, the government should just hold monthly bake sales in order to raise funds?

No - it shouldn't spend so much of our money on stupid things to start with. What is this addiction to government that so many of the people on this site have? There are only two things that government does better than private enterprise, and those are make war and destroy freedom. What is the fascination with having so much government? Kongress passes more laws every day that restrict my actions and cost me money (and that RINO Bush signs them). Does the quality of my life improve because of that? No - quite the opposite.

110 posted on 04/18/2002 4:36:07 AM PDT by from occupied ga
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To: alien
Nothing. Absolutely NOTHING! *sarcasm off*

However, it MIGHT put our rulers who art in Washington on notice that the natives grow restless and if they want to keep their cushy jobs, they'd better get on with a LONG OVERDUE AND SERIOUS DEBATE ON TAX REFORM.

Your solution is by far the easiest and the best: Do NOTHING -- and that's precisely what will happen: NOTHING! As it NOW stands, the current situation is as depicted below:

GUCCI GULCH:TAX REFORM HELL


111 posted on 04/18/2002 7:55:05 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: sourcery
I'm also under no moral obligation to leave, whether nor not I pay taxes, and whether or not I am a citizen of any particular country.

Trespasser morality.

In other words, "If you won't give me a free lunch, I'll take it."

112 posted on 04/18/2002 8:37:37 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: sourcery
By what right did a supermajority of citizens in 1789 give themselves the power to tax everyone who might ever be under the power of the US Government? I have no right to tax whomever I choose, so I cannot grant this right to others. And if I have not this right, and you have not this right, where did the voters in 1789 get this right, so that they could grant it to Congress in Article I, section 8 of the Constitution?

This is what it comes down to. It is disgusting that those who challenge you here can not understand this.

The founding fathers wrote probably the greatest document ever. However, they were short-sighted, made some errors and were naive enough to think that the vague wording of some parts would not be abused by future generations.

113 posted on 04/18/2002 8:54:14 AM PDT by FreeTally
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Comment #114 Removed by Moderator

Comment #115 Removed by Moderator

To: ffusco
"tin foil hat alert! You forgot to mention that the treasury dept is really an offshore corporation liscensd by the Fed to mint money and collect usary fees known as a sales tax-totally illegal! Also aliens are examining me rectally."

No doubt those aliens are looking for your brain! They won't find your brain, because you're obviously a Status Quo Junkie! Since you love to give the government money that you don't owe it- why don't you double up on your taxes, and pay my share too!

116 posted on 04/18/2002 10:44:03 AM PDT by Destructor
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Comment #117 Removed by Moderator

To: alien

Above you said: Constitution for the United States of America and made a link.

However, have you ever seen the original Constitution?

Yes.

What is the title of the original Constitution?

There is no Title line on the original Constitution.

Is it not "The Constitution of the United States of America"?

No that is a label applied by news outlets of the day, and in speaking of it.

What is the distinction between of and for?

The "of" reference does not exist in the Constitution, "for" does.

I take the reference from the Preamble as the only identification of the document in the actual Constitution.

Incidentally, I looked for a picture of the original Constitution which also included the title, but I couldn't find one. Perhaps you or someone else out there knows where one is and can provide a url for such???

You will never find one for there is no "Title" line on the document.

Go here for a picture of the the Constituion as it really is.

http://www.nara.gov/exhall/charters/constitution/conmain.html

Sorry No TITLE line containing "of".


 

Perhaps James Madisons discription of the Operation of the Government under the Constitution may cause you to think abit more about what the individual citizen's relationship is intended to be by the founders with respect to the National govenment ordained & established under the Constitution.

I do believe you may have been taking the descriptions of the government established under the Articles of Conferederation as being applicable to the Constitution and the government established there under.

The Constitution replaced the Articles of Confederation and instituted a profound change in the intended operation of goverment.

James Madison, Federalist #39:

James Madison, Federalist #45:

The Constitution was ratified with the above clearly stated intent foremost in knowledge and debates of the ratification assemblies and voters at large.

118 posted on 04/18/2002 12:43:48 PM PDT by ancient_geezer
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To: Roscoe
Trespasser morality.

In other words, "If you won't give me a free lunch, I'll take it."

I am not occupying anyone's property without their consent. Therefore I am not a trespasser. The same cannot be said of the thugs who would deport me, were I to take your advice.

And I am not asking for a free lunch, nor am I "taking" anything that does not belong to me. The same cannot be said of the US government.

The fact that I benefit from the existence and operation of society does not make me a thief. Nor is society a thief because it benefits from my actions, even though it does not pay for them. I cannot obligate you to pay me for the value you recieve from my actions, without your consent. You cannot obligate others to pay you for the value they receive from your actions, without their consent. If you don't like like the fact that there are those who happen to benefit from your actions, but who refuse to pay the price you demand, your only moral recourse is to refrain from doing the actions in question.

You may freely exercise your right to Liberty. If that happens to benefit others, they don't owe you anything whatsoever as a consequence, absent their prior agreement to pay.

119 posted on 04/18/2002 1:43:46 PM PDT by sourcery
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To: sourcery
And I am not asking for a free lunch, nor am I "taking" anything that does not belong to me.

Wrong.

We cannot say judicially that Kelly received no benefit from the city organization. These streets, if they do not penetrate his farm, lead to it. The water-works will probably reach him some day, and may be near enough to him now to serve him on some occasion. The schools may receive his children, and in this regard he can be in no worse condition than those living in the city who have no children, and yet who pay for the support of the schools. Every man in a county, a town, a city, or a State is deeply interested in the education of the children of the community, because his peace and quiet, his happiness and prosperity, are largely dependent upon the intelligence and moral training which it is the object of public schools to supply to the children of his neighbors and associates, if he has none himself.

The officers whose duty it is to punish and prevent crime are paid out of the taxes. Has he no interest in maintaining them, because he lives further from the court-house and policestation than some others?

Clearly, however, these are matters of detail within the discretion, and therefore the power, of the law-making body within whose jurisdiction the parties live. This court cannot say in such cases, however great the hardship or unequal the burden, that the tax collected for such purposes is taking the property of the taxpayer without due process of law.

KELLY v. CITY OF PITTSBURGH, 104 U.S. 78 (1881)


120 posted on 04/18/2002 2:14:13 PM PDT by Roscoe
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