The Real History of the Crusades

Crisis Magazine ^ | 4/1/2002 | Thomas Madden

[Dumb_Ox]

I suppose it's considered good form to end an article with a punchline, but he could at least had the sense to stick to facts...both the Bible and history prove this assertion false.

In what sense? When compared with Greco-Roman and Islamic attitudes towards women, and 18th-century American (and Islamic) attitudes towards slavery, Christianity's hardly dead-last.

[LostTribe]

>St. Bernard ... Ask anyone who knows the Sacred Scriptures what he finds foretold of the Jews in the Psalm. "Not for their destruction do I pray," it says. The Jews are for us the living words of Scripture, for they remind us always of what our Lord suffered....

An interesting article, but it's important to keep the definitions straight. Did St. Bernard not know that David, writer of the Psalms, was not a Jew? And that there were no Jews when the Psalms were written? Gotta know the players without a scorecard:

Partial list of Biblical CHARACTERS WHO WERE NOT JEWISH

  Genesis:  God, Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Shem, Ham, Japheth, Lot, Abraham,
  Sara, Melchizedek, Eliezer, Hagar, Ishmael, Isaac, Abimelech, Rebekah, Laban, Keturah, Esau, Jacob/Israel, Leah,
  Rachel, Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin, Dinah,
  Potiphar, Tamar, Perez, Zerah, Manasseh, Ephraim.

  Exodus:  Moses, Zipporah, Gershom, Jethro, Aaron, Eleazar, Joshua, Hur, Nadab, Abihu, Ithamar, Bezalel, Uri,
  Nun, Oholiab, Ahisamach.

  Leviticus:  Mishael, Elzaphan, Uzziel, Molech, Shelomith, Dibri.

  Others:  David, Solomon and Sampson were not Jews, among many others...
 

[Mike Fieschko]

[piling on]

Thanks from me for the article. Though my interest is purely an amateur's, I, too, enjoy attention given to these events.

[Don Myers]

bttt

[Deb]

BS

Where do you contend the concept of "Equal in the sight of God" came from, Mad magazine? The Christian nations abolished slavery and embraced equality before any others because of the Bible.

[FReethesheeples]

Mega-bump for Crisis magazine(!):

This article was published in SPECIFIC response to

Bill Clinton's outrageously arrogant Sept. 2001 speech at Georgetown Univ. in which Clinton put forth

the brazenly distored historical LIE (!!)

that the Sept. 11th WTC & Pentagon attacks were

(get this)

caused by the Crusades!!

[KellyAdmirer]

Thus betrayed by their Greek friends, in 1204 the Crusaders attacked, captured, and brutally sacked Constantinople, the greatest Christian city in the world.

Interesting article, if a bit thick on the "Crusaders were only good and Godly" angle. I can understand that theme, the Crusaders in general probably did have pure motives.

However, blaming the Fourth Crusader decision to attack and sack Constantinople - a pre-eminent Christian city and the recovery of whose captured lands had been the reason for the Crusades in the first place - on Greek betrayal is going completely overboard. The Venetians in control of the Crusade (by virtue of having the ships) used the Crusaders to reduce the Eastern Romans to ruins without any pure motives at all. They did it to build up their own trade in the region. That was the betrayal, not some dis-honored promises made - and no doubt know to be impossible to fulfill in advance by the shrewd Venetians - by the pretender to the Byzantine throne who was used to "justify" the raid.

[Bullish]

Thanks for the history lesson.

[The_Expatriate]

Because of the Bible? Could you cite for me chapter and verse the Bible's condemnation of slavery?

As you will be unable to do so (for none exists), let me cite a few examples of the Bible's toleration, even promotion, of slavery.

How did Jesus say a slave should treat his master?
A slave must completely obey and fear his master, even if his master is cruel and unjust: "Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward" (1 Peter 2:18). "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ" (Ephesians 6:5).

What is God's policy on physical punishment of your slave?
"A servant will not be corrected by words: for though he understand he will not answer"(Proverbs 29:19). "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye’s sake. And if he smite out his manservant’s tooth, or his maidservant’s tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth’s sake" (Exodus 21:26-27).

Whom did God tell the Israelites they should turn into their slaves?
The people of other tribes living around them: "Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids" (Leviticus 25:44).

What does God say is to happen to a male slave after six years of service?
"If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out by himself. And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever" (Exodus 21:2-6).

What does God say should happen to a master who beats his slave to death?
He should avoid all punishment if the slave survives for a couple days after the beating: "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money" (Exodus 21:20-21).

Does God allow you to sell your daughter into slavery?
Yes. And the situation is not unbearable for her since, if her master takes her as his wife and she does not please him, he must set her free: "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation, he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife: her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish" (Exodus 21:7-10).

What punishments does God mandate when an ox gores a free man and when an ox gores a slave?
"If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit. But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death....If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned" (Exodus 21:28-32).

What was the plight of those not born Israelites?
They were to be taken by the Israelites as slaves, and their children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, etc. were destined to be slaves: "Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever" (Leviticus 25:44-46).

What conduct by slaves does Jesus dislike?
Insincerity and rudeness: "Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God" (Colossians 3:22; see also Ephesians 6:5-6). "Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things" (Titus 2:9-10).

What effect does God say warfare has on slavery?
Whereas the men in any community invaded must be killed, the women and children are to be taken as slaves: "And when the Lord thy God hath delivered [a city] into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee" (Deuteronomy 20:13-14).

[The_Expatriate]

As for equality between men and women, that is a very un-Christian concept, if we are to go by the Bible.

What is a woman's role in the church?
A woman is never to open her mouth in church. She has nothing valuable to say and should limit her participation to asking her husband to explain things to her: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church" (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).

What is a woman's role in the educational process?
Women should never be teachers because they are easily deceived: "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression" (1 Timothy 2:11-14).

Is a wife permitted to follow her own conscience?
A woman must obey her husband in all matters at all times: "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their husbands in every thing" (Ephesians 5:22-24). "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God" (1 Corinthians 11:3). "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord" (Colossians 3:18).

In God's eyes, who is worth more between women and men?
God expressly says men are worth more, and actually provides monetary amounts proving this: "And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When a man shall make a singular vow, the persons shall be for the Lord by thy estimation. And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary. And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels. And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. And if it be from sixty years old and above, if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female, ten shekels" (Leviticus 27:1-7)

What is the role of a widow?
She should be depressed and pray day and night: "Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day. But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth" (1 Timothy 5:5-6).

How long is a woman unclean after the messy act of childbirth?
The woman is unclean for seven days if the child is a boy, but she is unclean for twice as long if the child is a girl: "And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days...But if she bare a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks" (Leviticus 12:1-5).

Can you trust a woman's promises or guarantees?
No, because women are deceitful and manipulative and because a woman's promise is null and void if her husband disapproves of it: "And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her" (Ecclesiastes 7:26). "But if her husband hath utterly made them void on the day he heard them; then whatsoever proceeded out of her lips concerning her vows, or concerning the bond of her soul, shall not stand: her husband hath made them void; and the Lord shall forgive her" (Numbers 30:12).

Under what circumstances are we to spare the life of a married or engaged woman who has been raped?
When the woman is raped in the country as opposed to the city or when the woman is a slave girl: "If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out onto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city...But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die...For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her" (Deuteronomy 22:23-27). "And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free" (Leviticus 19:20).

In times of war, what is God's plight for women in the captured areas?
While the men are to be killed, the women are to be taken as slaves. Pretty women are to become the wives of conquering men who find them attractive. Women in places the Lord gives His chosen people as an inheritance are to be killed along with every other living thing: "And when the Lord thy God hath delivered [a city] into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones...shalt thou take unto thyself...But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth" (Deuteronomy 20:13-16). "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies...And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house...thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife" (Deuteronomy 21:10-13).

[Deb]

Is your post a joke or is your bias so great you can't understand English?

Try reading what I wrote again without your determined and hardcore prejudice. Maybe you're just not capable of seeing the difference between the way the Bible says God sees and values his creation and the way man sees and values his brothers.

Once again...the Christian nations were the first to denounce and abolish slavery. The Sudan (a muslim country) is still practicing it...against Christians.

Please note that for centuries slavery existed for many and various reasons. People sold themselves into slavery. Parents sold their children. People and families fell into slavery because of debt. Countries were conquered...and on and on. After the famine in Ireland, hundreds of thousands sold themselves into indentured slavery in order to come to America. God's concern has always been for the soul of man, not the flesh. How man has structured his culture and civilization has been up to him. God has cared how we functioned within that civilization, which is why Jesus was constantly talking about poor men going to heaven and rich men mistakenly building their heaven on earth. An honorable "slave" would have been more precious to God than a dishonorable King.

Your Bible verses are ridiculous and our thinking is trite.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

Good article, thanks.

Two other Crusade threads:

The Battle over the Crusades: Myths, legends and anti-Catholic "histories"

CRUSADE

[DaveTesla]

The Devil qoutes scripture.

Live as Servants of God.
Peter 2.11
11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and exiles to abstain from the desires of the flesh that wage war against the soul.
12 Conduct yourselves honorably among the Gentiles, so that, though they malign you as evildoers, they may see your
honorable deeds and glorify God when he comes to judge. 13 For the Lord’s sake accept the authority of every human
institution ordained for human beings, whether of the emperor as supreme, 14 or of governors, as sent by him to
punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing right you should
silence the ignorance of the foolish. 16 As servants of God, live as free people, yet do not use your freedom as a
pretext for evil. 17 Honor everyone. Love the family of believers. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

[Publius6961]

I always found the "Children's Crusade" to the be the sadest. Thousands of kids from Central and Eastern Europe made it to somehwhere in Turkey and were captured and sold into slavery.

The first example of that peculiarly western notion of "meaning well"; unintended consequences; and the triumph of reality over good intentions.
Sound familiar?

A pathetic current version is the "we never dreamed they would fire live bullets..."
Children I can understand; Adults acting like children...

[Brian Kopp DPM]

The least you could do is link the source of your excerpts. You from the DU?

Here is the source, FYI you other FReepers:

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[<Please! Take Me Back To Church!]

[SuziQ]

The ancient faith of Christianity, with its respect for women and antipathy toward slavery,

Under what OTHER religious teachings would women and slaves been better treated? Islam? Zoroastrianism? Druidism? One of the reasons women could inherit property and slaves were required to be treated well (and NOT separated from their families) in Louisiana was because it operated under the Napoleanic Code which was encouraged by the Catholic Church. Other states in the South didn't have these requirements precisely because they were not Catholic.

If it were not for the stressing of individual liberty and responsibility which comes from Christianity, this country would not be what it is today; and is a major reason why there are really NO OTHERS like ours anywhere! We were an experiment which has proven to be successful; a wonderful blend of religiosity and secularism.

[Deb]

What a great quote.

I remember seeing a list one time of the brilliant and powerful men, down thru the ages, who had originally been born into slavery and there was an essay with it that claimed if the men had been born free, they wouldn't have achieved their greatness. Something about adversary building their character.

[Deb]

Oh, I see...you're just mindlessly cutting and pasting from some book. Do you have a point? Obviously not.