The Real History of the Crusades

Crisis Magazine ^ | 4/1/2002 | Thomas Madden

[SuziQ]

Doesn't this say something to you about religious teachings in general?

It tells me that Christianity is unique in history, and that its teachings, if practiced in the real world, hold the promise of liberty and equality for EVERYONE in THIS life and Eternal Life in the hereafter for those who believe, accept and live it!

And America is unique because the teachings of Christianity, that same liberty and equality, were the underpinnings of this great political experiment along with the Greek ideas of democracy. It has not always worked smoothly in practice, it took a long time for slavery to be abolished, but abolished it was and the descendants of those slaves have been able to grow up in a place which affords them more opportunities than they would have anywhere else in the world! And though women were only given politcal power in the last century, we are in a unique position in the world in that we are able to be well educated, own property on our own and live our lives under our own control if we wish. And if we wish, we may decide to marry WITHOUT giving up our individual liberties, unlike many women in the rest of the world.

[LarryLied]

Thanks! Going to check out the CE on gnosticism right now. Just discovered Eric Voegelin and his writings on the links between gnosticism, puritianism, liberalism, marxism and communism.

Sickened to say I did study religion and philosophy in college. I was robbed.

[pgkdan]

And what, exactly, is your definition of a Jew?

[Aliska]

Did you forget the one about a woman is unclean for 30 days if she has a male child and unclean for twice that if she bears a female child? Women were so unclean they were not allowed in the sanctuary for centuries.

[LostTribe]

>And what, exactly, is your definition of a Jew?

Please click on my Profile.

[rmlew]

LostTribe wrote:
of Biblical CHARACTERS WHO WERE NOT JEWISH

Genesis: God, Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Shem, Ham, Japheth, Lot, Abraham, Sara, Melchizedek, Eliezer, Hagar, Ishmael, Isaac, Abimelech, Rebekah, Laban, Keturah, Esau, Jacob/Israel, Leah, Rachel, Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah,

Try again. Judah son of Israel/Joseph was the first Jew. The Term Jew comes from the tribe or Judah, who patriarch was Judah!

Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin, Dinah, Potiphar, Tamar, Perez, Zerah, Manasseh, Ephraim.

I believe that Perez was Judah's son, se he was a Judean.

Exodus: Moses, Zipporah, Gershom, Jethro, Aaron, Eleazar, Joshua, Hur, Nadab, Abihu, Ithamar, Bezalel, Uri, Nun, Oholiab, Ahisamach.

I'm pretty sure that Uri was of the tribe of Judah. As for Zipporah, she was a Midianite who converted as was her father Jethro.

Others: David, Solomon and Sampson were not Jews, among many others...

No, no, no! David and Solomon were of the Tribe of Judah. Solomon's son Rehobam ticked off the norther tribes leading to the split with the tribe of Judah dominating the southern kingdom.

Lost Tribe. Your European=Lost Tribe theroy was silly before. Now it has gone into actually being against the Bible. Go read the bible.

[LostTribe]

The word "Jew" derives from the Kingdom of Judah, not from Judah himself. The earliest possible use of the word "Jew" came with the split of the Kingdom of Israel and Kingdom of Judah about 922BC. That is long after Judah is dead, and after the time of David and Solomon as well.

But other scholars insist the word "Jew" was never used until applied to those returning from the Babylonian captivity, ~500 BC. Anything beyond this is revisionist history.

[Mare Tranquilitatus]

> Go read the bible.

I have looked in the Bible but cannot find where any of the people you cited are called Jews. Would you be so kind as to give me some specific Biblical references I could review.

[Charles Martel]

Islam is currently in the middle of its second big push into Europe. Eventually the West will either wake up and begin fighting back, or it will end up overwhelmed by Islam.

This is Islam's THIRD big push. Before the Polish army broke the siege of Vienna in 1683, there was the Battle of Tours in 732:

********

October 10, 732 AD marks the conclusion of the Battle of Tours, arguably one of the most decisive battles in all of history.

A Moslem army, in a crusading search for land and the end of Christianity, after the conquest of Syria, Egypt, and North Africa, began to invade Western Europe under the leadership of Abd-er Rahman, governor of Spain. Abd-er Rahman led an infantry of 60,000 to 400,000 soldiers across the Western Pyrenees and toward the Loire River, but they were met just outside the city of Tours by Charles Martel, known as the Hammer, and the Frankish Army.

Martel gathered his forces directly in the path of the oncoming Moslem army and prepared to defend themselves by using a phalanx style of combat. The invading Moslems rushed forward, relying on the slashing tactics and overwhelming number of horsemen that had brought them victories in the past. However, the French Army, composed of foot soldiers armed only with swords, shields, axes, javelins, and daggers, was well trained. Despite the effectiveness of the Moslem army in previous battles, the terrain caused them a disadvantage. Their strength lied within their cavalry, armed with large swords and lances, which along with their baggage mules, limited their mobility. The French army displayed great ardency in withstanding the ferocious attack. It was one of the rare times in the Middle Ages when infantry held its ground against a mounted attack. The exact length of the battle is undetermined; Arab sources claim that it was a two day battle whereas Christian sources hold that the fighting clamored on for seven days. In either case, the battle ended when the French captured and killed Abd-er Rahman. The Moslem army withdrew peacefully overnight and even though Martel expected a surprise retaliation, there was none. For the Moslems, the death of their leader caused a sharp setback and they had no choice but to retreat back across the Pyrenees, never to return again.

Not only did this prove to be an extremely decisive battle for the Christians, but the Battle of Tours is considered the high water mark of the Moslem invasion of Western Europe.

*************************

Hey, whattaya know... a French army that *fought*! ;-) And won a big, important battle, too. Must've been the pre-cheese epoch.

[Claud]

What is your opinion, and that of other scholars, of the 1908 edition of The Catholic Encyclopedia?. I'm not Catholic but, since first finding it a few months ago on the net, have enjoyed it immensely. It is very even handed and gives a good history of Unitarianism (my faith) but I wonder how other subjects fare.

I'm a devout Catholic sometime-scholar and I find the CE invaluable. Doctrinally (as far as I can tell, not being a theologian) it is unimpeachable, and I find it particularly useful (as you pointed out LarryLied) in its even-handed approach to everything it covers. If I wanted to know simply what unitarianism or gnosticism was all about, without all the revisionist garbage, that's where I'd go. It doesn't refrain from making moral and doctrinal judgments (I remember it said that islamic ethics were "far inferior" to that of Christianity and Judaism), but in no case have I found that it is factually inaccurate. It does an excellent job covering controversies and objections to various doctrines.

Most of my research revolves around Native America, and have numerous times searched for some obscure tribe on Google only to find it mentioned in the CE. Some of my favorite articles are the ones on Cosmogony and the Pre-Columbian Discovery of America.

This discussion reminds me of something...Archbishop Fulton Sheen said that a Marxist told him once that the best and clearest description of Marxism he had ever heard came from a papal encyclical (which was, no doubt, condemning it).

[Billy_bob_bob]

Mea Culpa, and thanks for the history lesson. Funny how in all the years I went to public school I didn't hear ONE SINGLE WORD about the Muslim invasions, or the Mongol invasions, or the Moorish invasions, or any of the other threats to Europe over the last thousand years or so.

But boy, I sure heard about the evils of "colonialism" and slavery and "Western imperialism". Oh yes, they told me about that time and time and time and time again. Over and over and over and over, making sure that I knew that white people were bad, and to blame for everything wrong in the entire universe.

I truly and deeply hate public education in this country. It is nothing more than a Marxist indoctrination system. It needs to be de-funded and the schools bulldozed. Then the teachers need to be rounded up and "re-educated", with the goal of eventually turning them into useful, productive citizens. It shouldn't take more than a few years in a camp for most of them. Base their food ration on how much piecework they produce in a day. The goal would be to teach them about the importance of individual productivity, instead of how to sponge off of the collective.

[LarryLied]

I studied theology and philosphy in college and never heard of the CE (you would think a course on hermeneutics at Jesuit Fairfield would have at least mentioned it). Think I should ask for a refund?

Thanks for the links. It is a large resource and pointers on where to look for the good stuff is appreciated.

[RobbyS]

That was the betrayal, not some dis-honored promises made - and no doubt know to be impossible to fulfill in advance by the shrewd Venetians - by the pretender to the Byzantine throne who was used to "justify" the raid. Without defending the Venetians, in what way was it a "betrayal" for the Venetians to undercut their rivals in Constantinople and to put their own puupets into power? The Byzantine prince, on the other hand, knowingly let the foxes into the henhouse.

[Doctor Stochastic]

The valiant duke Godfrey of Bouillon, the knights, and the other men of arms that were with him descended from the walls all armed into the town. They went together through the streets with their swords and spears in hand. All them that they met they slew and smote right down, men, women, and children, sparing none. There might no prayers nor crying of mercy avail. They slew so many in the streets that there were heaps of dead bodies, and one might not go nor pass but upon them that so lay dead. The men on foot went into other parts of the town in great bands, holding in their hands great poleaxes, swords, mallets and other weapons, slaying all the Turks that they could find, for they were the men of the world whom our men had greatest hate unto and gladliest would put to death. They were then come into the middle of the city. * * * I may not rehearse to you nor cannot the feats of every man by himself. But there was so much blood shed that the channels and gutters ran all with blood, and all the streets of the town were covered with dead men, in such a wise that it was great pity for to see, had it not been of the enemies of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Description of a Crusase by William of Tyre

[CaptRon]

But no one would seriously argue that the purpose of American wars is to kill women and children.

Wanna bet?

[Mat_Helm]

Firstly, you must find... another shrubbery!

Then, when you have found the shrubbery, you must cut down the mightiest tree in the forest... with... a herring!

[Tribune7]

Yes, I did save myself some time and trouble by going to an online source to get the Bible quotes; it seems you've done the same to save yourself the time and trouble of thinking of a rebuttal.

How about these which I think more honestly get to the point of the matter.

Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you--although if you can gain your freedom, do so. For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave. You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.
1Cor7:21-23

You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise! In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or exploits you or takes advantage of you or pushes himself forward or slaps you in the face. To my shame I admit that we were too weak for that!
2 Cor 11:19-21

Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might remain with you.
Gal 2:3-5

And what should be the clincher . . .

for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Galations 3:27-29

Saying the Bible establishes or encourages slavery or sexism is like saying our Constitution establishes slavery or sexism. The evils existed before the code. The code eventually ended -- or strongly mitigated -- the evils.

[rmlew]

The word "Jew" derives from the Kingdom of Judah, not from Judah himself. The earliest possible use of the word "Jew" came with the split of the Kingdom of Israel and Kingdom of Judah about 922BC. That is long after Judah is dead, and after the time of David and Solomon as well.

Check the bible. there were members of 12 tribes and Israelites were refered to by their tribe. The kingdom of Judah got its name from the largest tribe in it, Judah. Similarly the Northern kindom was dominated by Ephraim.

But other scholars insist the word "Jew" was never used until applied to those returning from the Babylonian captivity, ~500 BC. Anything beyond this is revisionist history.

The same schoars who think Celts are Ephraimites? Talk about Revisionist history!

[rmlew]

For the Lineage of David see Ruth 4.

[12] and may your house be like the house of Perez, whom Tamar bore to Judah, because of the children that the LORD will give you by this young woman."
... [18] Now these are the descendants of Perez: Perez was the father of Hezron, [19] Hezron of Ram, Ram of Ammin'adab, [20] Ammin'adab of Nahshon, Nahshon of Salmon, [21] Salmon of Bo'az, Bo'az of Obed, [22] Obed of Jesse, and Jesse of David.

I sugest that you go to an online bible and do a search.
I also expect an apology.