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What's your view on the accuracy of the Bible? - FREEP THIS POLL!!!
MSNBC.Com ^ | 12/24/2001 | MSNBC.Com

Posted on 12/24/2001 8:50:21 PM PST by Bobby777

what ever your views are FReep this poll!!! let's keep this thing bumped ... the score is terrible ... c'mon Christians ... it's on the left ... a little bit down ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
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To: ProudGenXLibertarian
Yes but you are missing a key element here. If the bible is the inspired word of God, then how come so many denominations of his living church have such different teachings??

You comments require a more lengthy explanation, so bear with me here. God created us with a free will and with the ability to think and reason. We are not his puppets to be controlled. As free-thinking individuals, with unique backgrounds, we will not all have the identical understanding when reading God's Word. Hence, the different interpretations of some words, the different translations written, the different doctrines preached in many churches. They are the result of disagreement among human beings. Martin Luther separated himself from the Catholics by stating that to man was given the ability to have direct access to God, through Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit who provides to us guidance and understanding, directly, when we individually read God's Word. The Catholic doctrine was that only the priests could provide meaning of God's Word and access to God, Himself. This caused a split in the Roman Catholic church. Some translations of the Bible (i.e., the Living Bible) were written so that the text was written in contemporary English. These, however, should not be used as a serious study Bible. Strong's Concordance brings the serious student back to the original text (Aramaic, Hebrew, whatever) and provides several different possible translations for the word or phrase.

In areas that appear gray in scripture, our different viewpoints, when shared, adds to a deeper understanding (much like when you mix different ingredients into a soup mixture, the end result is much more pleasant and fulfilling than if the single ingredients are enjoyed separately).

Nevertheless, scripture is clear about many things, but even on those issues some people, rather than seeking God's will, have an agenda to fulfill, and God warns us of these folks:

1 Tim. 1: (6) For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, (7) wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions. . . . (9) realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers (10) and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching . . .;

1 Tim. 6: (3)"If anyone advocates a different doctrine, and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, (4) he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about the words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, (5) and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth . . . (11) But flee from these things, you man of God, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness . . .

God is constantly telling us to look to Him for how to live our lives, what to think and believe, and for guidance, not to put our ultimate trust on men, who will fail us (in word and deed) because they are not perfect and do not have, therefore, a perfect understanding of God:
1 Thess. 4:11: . . . make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you; (12) so that you may behave properly toward outsiders and not be in any need.

Philippians 3: (6) Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. (7) And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, shall guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. (8) Finally, bretheren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, let your mind dwell on these things.

Verse 8 of Philippians is the perfect description of Christ. He is: true, honorable, right, pure, lovely, of good repute, excellent, and worthy of praise. He is the One whom we should dwell on, not what other men are saying and doing. If we spent our mind and time trying to imitate these things of Christ, we would become more like Him and people would begin to resemble each other more in their thoughts, deeds, characteristics. For example, if all Christians spent more time in the Word, applying it to themselves, patterning themselves after Christ, you would find more Christians who are loving, empathetic, of like mind regarding scripture, humble, kind, generous, wise, not busy-bodies, etc. But, not many Christians do what God wants, therefore, you see self and selfish agendas being imposed in church doctrines, church leadership, etc.
321 posted on 12/29/2001 12:11:45 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: eazdzit
|| KJV Titus 2:13 13. Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

KJV 2 Peter 1:1-3 1. Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2. Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord. ||

I do not see the contradiction you cite..I might say My husband and my lover XXX(regarding my husband)..He might say my wife and the mother of my children and mean me..you are just looking for a reason to doubt the divinity of Christ..

We have been pretty snowed in here..so I have not had an opportunity to parse the Matthew Henry quote..( a Calvinist that believed in the divinity of Christ :>)

322 posted on 12/29/2001 12:12:38 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: ProudGenXLibertarian
But Im still a little confused on the teaching of churches.

You have a right to be! RNMOM said it best.....

I started to read the Bible for the first time in my life.


She was raised Catholic, I was raised nothing. God found us in different places, but find us He did!
323 posted on 12/29/2001 12:12:38 AM PST by Elsie
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To: RnMomof7
B(e)cause if He does not reveal it to you there is nothing we can say!

Amen MOMMA!!!!!



NIV Matthew 11:25-28
 25.  At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
 26.  Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
 27.  "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
 28.  "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
 
NIV Matthew 16:17
 17.  Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
 
NIV Luke 2:25-26
 25.  Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him.
 26.  It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
 
NIV John 12:37-38
 37.  Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him.
 38.  This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet: "Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"
 
NIV John 17:6-8
 6.  "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
 7.  Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.
 8.  For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.
 
NIV Romans 1:17
 17.  For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,  just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."
 
NIV Romans 10:20-21
 20.  And Isaiah boldly says, "I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me." 
 21.  But concerning Israel he says, "All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people."
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 2:9-10
 9.  However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" --
 10.  but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.   The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
 
NIV Ephesians 3:4-5
 4.  In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
 5.  which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets.

324 posted on 12/29/2001 12:12:57 AM PST by Elsie
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To: nicmarlo
Thanks Nic, I am just a seeker on a path of knowledge when it comes to my christian beliefs. Im am trying to find a "fit" into an ideology I guess.
325 posted on 12/29/2001 12:15:14 AM PST by ProudGenXLibertarian
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To: Elsie
Thanks Elsie, Are you saying that "organized" religion is not good?? Or is it good?
326 posted on 12/29/2001 12:15:14 AM PST by ProudGenXLibertarian
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To: ProudGenXLibertarian
I am just a seeker on a path of knowledge when it comes to my christian beliefs. Im am trying to find a "fit" into an ideology

May I suggest you read the Gospel of John, all the way through, and when you're done, read it again; and when you've finished it a second time, read it once more. The Holy Spirit will speak to you as you read, showing you what He wants you to see. You can also, after the third time through, read the references to different verses back and forward from the Old Testament to New Testament. My humble opinion and advice.

327 posted on 12/29/2001 12:15:22 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: ProudGenXLibertarian
Thanks for the Information, I will use it. But Im still a little confused on the teaching of churches.

The teachings of churches are the imperfect interpretations of other men. Only the Word of God is perfect, and you can never hear it from his lips. Best then, that you should interpret his words for yourself rather than trust others to do so for you.

IMHO...

PS That the misled use the Bible as an excuse for evil is merely a perversion, and casts no light onto the Bible itself. Just as those who use a rock to murder do not make the rock a thing of evil. Again, IMHO...

FReegards...

328 posted on 12/29/2001 12:15:32 AM PST by copycat
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To: RnMomof7
"Why would an all powerful God choose evolution instead of direct creation?"

I have no idea why and I don't think man really understands much about G_d. I don't know why, but I know that he did use evolution. We can go on and on about this but creationists have to go through all kinds of nonsensical hoops to make their case. And considering that Genisis doesn't rule out evolution, I see no need in denying what is obvious. I've heard ALL the arguements by creationists,... like the carbon dating foolery, but it doesn't add up..

But if gives you comfort or makes you happy to believe that evolution is a fraud there is nothing wrong with that.

But for me, as I'm here sitting on my tailbone, I have no problem meshing science with religion. Considering that G_d made everything, science is the truest form of worship, through science we discover what G_d has wrought. Through science we gain a measure of understanding of G_d's glory.
329 posted on 12/29/2001 12:16:29 AM PST by StolarStorm
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To: StolarStorm
I have no idea why and I don't think man really understands much about G_d. I don't know why, but I know that he did use evolution.

Do you or do you take it on "faith"

I took an Anthropology course a few years ago..the young professor told us that it would be taught from an evolutionary perspective. That we were free to disagree,but we would have to prove what we said

I then sat through a class devoid of any proof at all.

Every evolutionary premises was preceded with "We believe that " NO proof at all!

I would be interested in your "first cause" proof of evolution..

330 posted on 12/29/2001 12:16:31 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
You will almost never hear a scientist say that anything is absolute, so the "we believe" phrase is typical.

You don't really want me to write a treatise on why evolution is the most likely scenario do you? That information is extensive and easily available. Besides, you don't really WANT to believe in evolution...

I'll leave this whole discussion with a question.

You asked me why would G_d go through the complexity of evolution. My question to you is, why did G_d go through the complexity of giving us a vestigal tailbone, an appendix, nipples on men, dinosaurs, remains of proto-humans and Neanderthals, Universal expansion that indicates 15 billion years of existence, bacteria on Mars, trillions and trillions of stars and planets when only one set would be required, Children with genetic disorders, and so on.

I'm not some snake in the garden trying to lead you astray.... evolution and the bible are not in conflict. I'm not sure why some ministers try to say otherwise.... maybe its a power thing.

Some light reading material....

331 posted on 12/29/2001 12:17:07 AM PST by StolarStorm
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To: StolarStorm
It takes more faith to believe in evolution that to believe in a creator God.

So why did evolved man need Jesus? When did God promise a savior and why?

332 posted on 12/29/2001 12:17:09 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: ProudGenXLibertarian
Are you saying that "organized" religion is not good?? Or is it good?

Yes......

Today there are 'denominations' that were once good, bible preaching, soul winning organizations, but they have lost their light. The gospel has been watered down, sins are tolerated, growth is overlooked. Membership is steadily declining as people hunger for the truth and look elsewhere.

But, there are individual churches within the group that are alive and vibrant. It GREATLY depends on the main man, the guy in the pulpit, whether he is lead by God or his own heart. On the flip side, there are expanding denominations today that can have some poor churches in them.

Do not confuse style with content. Many fine OLD churches have a style that is more formal. Big stone buildings, powerful pipe organs, fixed wooden (maybe even padded!) pews, an established tradition, a more ritual type of music and worship time, with an offertory song being played as the ushers pass among the aisles, taking up the Sunday offering.

Many fine young churches look like a shopping mall. In fact, may MEET in a rented store front. They may have a sanctuary of moveable chairs, music with guitars, drums, cymbals and the worshipers may clap their hands and tap their feet and may not even take up a collection, but have a box for folks to drop their tithes and offerings into as they enter or leave.

People are different and the way they are comfortable with worshiping are different. Some like a small church; one where it feels like a large family. Others prefer a large church; one that may have more variety of ministries in it.

My own church is a small to medium size, with a desire to reach more people. We are also adding an extra service to try to reach younger folks. Now they've grown up in a different culture than us old fogies and they worship different too.

While the WAY we present the Message may be different for them, it is STILL the Message. There is still power in the blood!


You have the power to choose where you worship and learn.

Some of the most charming and charismatic preachers and teachers can deliver a milktoast message. And, some of the most BORING guys can have lessons that are just jammed full of good stuff. You must discriminate and judge the message separate from the man.

Above all, learn to hear that still, small voice of God. He is a gentleman - does not shout (well, not TOO often) <- that's a joke.... but sometimes we DO need shouted at!



NIV Job 26:14
 14.  And these are but the outer fringe of his works; how faint the whisper we hear of him! Who then can understand the thunder of his power?"
 
NIV 1 Kings 19:11-13
 11.  The LORD said, "Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by."   Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake.
 12.  After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper.
 13.  When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave.   Then a voice said to him, "What are you doing here, Elijah?"
 
NIV Acts 17:11
 11.  Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. (And this was just the OLD testement!)

Nothing beats Bible reading. If it's confusing, pray and ask for enlightenment. He has PROMISED to give it to you!

James Chapter One
5. If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

333 posted on 12/29/2001 12:18:26 AM PST by Elsie
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To: nicmarlo
I agree heartily!
You can have read the bible daily for many years, and yet, after another reading, some things will stand out to you that you have NEVER seen before!!!

You'll wonder, "What?? where did THAT come from??"

334 posted on 12/29/2001 12:18:27 AM PST by Elsie
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To: George W Bush
Ping
335 posted on 12/29/2001 12:18:40 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Elsie
You can have read the bible daily for many years, and yet, after another reading, some things will stand out to you that you have NEVER seen before!!!

This happens to me often. And when it does, it pierces my heart greatly--at those times I especially feel His love and concern for my welfare and His presence. God uses the same Words for different reasons, sometimes as encouragement through a present trouble, yet another time the same passage He uses as a promise for future blessings, one I overlooked when I needed only encouragement, still another time I feel God's forgiveness when I've done a wrong, to Him or within my life--God speaks to me through His Word, in whatever circumstance, using the same Words but yet again, not. The Word of God lives and breathes; I change, yet He does not. No other text I read affects me the way God's Word does. Our God is an awesome God.

336 posted on 12/29/2001 4:48:32 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Elsie; Orthodox Presbyterian; RnMomof7
Just WHY did King James 'authorize' the Bible anyway? To get it INTO the hands of the people and not to have them relying on what the 'leaders' of the churches were telling them.

Well, not exactly. The Authorized is a wonderfully accurate translation with very few mistranslated words but does contain some unusual and archaic words. King James was actually wanting to publish a sound English Bible that had no footnotes or commentary in the margins. The reason he wanted this so badly was to battle the influence of the Geneva Bible, then the dominant translation. The Geneva (from Calvin's Geneva) contained a great deal of anti-monarchical footnotes. These footnotes were especially opposed to church-state collusion (King James and the Church of England) and were generally republican, not monarchical.

The good king produced an excellent Bible, still the best English bible available. But his motives were political. However, Calvin's Geneva Bible and its seditious footnotes were not stamped out in time to prevent the American Revolution. Calvin's ideas about republican government and the separation of church from state had taken hold in America very strongly. Particularly among Presbyterians, a very fiery bunch in those days. To a lesser degree, the same held true among Calvinists in other denominations as well.

Without Calvin and his seditious footnoted Bible, there might not have even been a Revolution. Even though the King James Version had overtaken the Geneva Bible by the time of the Revolution, Calvin's ideas had entered into the maketplace of ideas in the Enlightenment period. And, of course, there were many American congregations who preserved the memory of their persecution at the hands of church-state alliances in Europe. The Puritan influence, also strongly rooted in the church-state conflict, also contributed to the church-based revolutionary tendency.
337 posted on 12/29/2001 5:48:04 AM PST by George W. Bush
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To: George W. Bush; Elsie; Orthodox Presbyterian
Geneva Bible commentaries on line

Thanks for the history lesson GW

338 posted on 12/29/2001 6:55:30 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: nicmarlo
A Baptist teacher told me what that new insite is called.."illumination" (here I thought I was the only one that happened to :>) :
339 posted on 12/29/2001 6:58:02 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
..."illumination" (here I thought I was the only one that happened to

Nope. I know of many individuals to whom it also happens. (Of course, that would only be with people who read their Bibles more than once, lol.) And the other thing, usually when I speak with someone with whom it's happened, it's usually been scripture applied to them, personally, not for finger-pointing, if you know what I mean.

340 posted on 12/29/2001 7:12:30 AM PST by nicmarlo
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