What's your view on the accuracy of the Bible? - FREEP THIS POLL!!!

MSNBC.Com ^ | 12/24/2001 | MSNBC.Com

[Bobby777]

what ever your views are FReep this poll!!! let's keep this thing bumped ... the score is terrible ... c'mon Christians ... it's on the left ... a little bit down ...

[Jerry_M]

"Now we see your true colors. Only Southern Baptist seminary educated conservatives have the keys to the Word of God."

"Its odd... but almost all of the extreme literalists on FR that routinely doom everyone but themselves to Hell, are Southern Baptists. Are they some kind of freaky cult or something? It seems they do a great job of driving people from religion. Just who's unwitting tool are they?"

I should ignore this type of attack, having seen it far too often, but I think that it is important to see the nature of these types of attacks, if only for the benefit of lurkers.

Where did I say that I have a lock on the truth of God's Word?

Where did I doom anyone to hell?

You can't find either of these because I didn't say them. Both of you are jumping to conclusions and attempting to put words in my posts. However, those of us who have had to bear these types of attacks aren't surprised due to the fact that our detractors don't seem to be able to discuss these topics honestly and tend to resort to these types of underhanded tactics.

[StolarStorm]

You're right, I don't really have a good grasp of Calvinism. It just seems pointless to even consider who the "elect" are or even to create a sect that even discusses it as Calvininist do. If things are pre-ordained... and yet we must all still hope/strive for salvation anyway... and G_d already knows who will succeed (and I don't dispute that) why should we even dwell on that aspect.

I'm not sure I worded that question correctly... If the elect are already known.... so be it... but whats the point of having a sect based on that belief... its seems fruitless as you can't change anything by that understanding. It just strikes me as a philosophy that could be used to create a horror... a horror of elitism. "We're better because G-d has already for-ordained our salvation... we are your superiors." Do Calvinist believe that only Calvinist can be of the "elect"?

I have to admit that Calvinism has always fascinated me.

[RetiredArmy]

What was it that President Bush said, "Either your with Jesus or your against Him?" Or something like that! :)

[Jerry_M]

"It took me many years to discover the truth, that Christ set me free from all that garbage."

Are you actually able to articulate the "gospel" that set you free "from all that garbage"? If so, and you really believe what you say, then isn't it imperative that you share your message with others?

If you notice, I have given you several opportunities to share your "path of enlightenment". All we have seen, so far, is a vague mish-mash of gnostic mysticism.

[StolarStorm]

I shouldn't have said that. But in complete honesty many many of the "you are going to Hell" types do seem to be Southern Baptists. It sounds like a terrible attack... but I can't honestly take that back... as I've seen lots of that kind of thing coming from SBs, more so from any other group. It may just be that a lot of SBs are on this forum so it tilts things a bit. That and a lot of SBs are sorely in need of some formal education (you won't like that at all I'm sure... but again I believe that to be true from experience).

[RnMomof7]

Christ brings Love and Peace not condemnation.

Here is what Gods word says about it

Luke 12
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

Matthew 10
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

The Peace Christ gives is His peace to His own

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

[StolarStorm]

"Even Jesus said the letter kills, but the spirit gives life. "

Thats gets right to the matter of this whole discussion, and beautifully.

[RnMomof7]

These literalists will be shocked when Christ returns

There will be alot of people very surprised when Jesus comes again.

[RadioAstronomer]

I wonder where I would fit in with this argument. I personally voted #3 on the list. I see evidence for both stellar and biological evolution all around us. This universe we inhabit is approximately 15 billion years old that started with the Big Bang and the planet we live on has been around some 4.5 billion years. The dinosaurs died out with the K-T event approximately 65 million years ago. What truly amazes me is the tremendous effort that is expended to try and reconcile this information with a literal interpretation of Genesis.

[StolarStorm]

He did explain his path. He actually read the part in the Bible that said "all those that believe in me shall have eternal life" Believing in Jesus and that he died for our sins grants salvation. Jesus forgives and allows minor disagreements b/w churches as long as you believe the main tenet of the whole thing. You don't have to be a Roman Catholic... you don't have to be a Church of Christer... and you don't have to be a Baptist. Any minister who tells you otherwise is a fraud.

[RnMomof7]

Its odd... but almost all of the extreme literalists on FR that routinely doom everyone but themselves to Hell, are Southern Baptists. Are they some kind of freaky cult or something? It seems they do a great job of driving people from religion. Just who's unwitting tool are they?

I am not a Baptist of any sort. I wonder if you have considered the implications of deciding that some parts of scripture are true and others are not?

[RnMomof7]

I could not live a perfect enough life.

re..none of us can ever live a life worth of our Holy God. That is why He had to come here to pay that price for us.

All of our righteousness is as filthy rags to a holy God.

[StolarStorm]

Yeah... I don't get it either. Especially considering that there isn't a conflict at all with evolution and Genesis as long as you are aware of the actual meaning of Genesis. (the day versus period of time situation) Sadly, a lot of uneducated folks have never been told by their minister that the King James Bible was translated poorly from the Greek texts. I just don't understand why those who claim to be devout havn't bother to read up on the history of the Bible and discover this item on their own.

[StolarStorm]

I guess perhaps our definition of "literal" may be different... but I do understand your point. I don't believe any significant part of the Bible is untrue or incorrect. I just believe that much of what it says cannot be taken literally. The underlying spirit of the messages are true just not all the literal words.

The moral of the story is true... the message is true...but not always the story itself...

[RnMomof7]

I'm not sure I worded that question correctly... If the elect are already known.... so be it... but whats the point of having a sect based on that belief... its seems fruitless as you can't change anything by that understanding. It just strikes me as a philosophy that could be used to create a horror... a horror of elitism. "We're better because G-d has already for-ordained our salvation... we are your superiors." Do Calvinist believe that only Calvinist can be of the "elect"?

Do you believe that God is present to all time? That He knows the beginning and the end? (There are lots of people that deny God's foreknowlege ,that is what I am asking about). I think that is usually pretty good common ground for most Christians. (My particular church does not have a doctrinal position on it..that is why I asked you)

[Jerry_M]

""We're better because G-d has already for-ordained our salvation... we are your superiors." Do Calvinist believe that only Calvinist can be of the "elect"?

I think that you will notice that most Calvinists recognize just how vile and undeserving they really are, and marvel at God's grace in saving them inspite of themselves. It could be that Calvinists are the only ones who truly know the horrific nature of sin and depravity.

Does one have to be a Calvinist in order to one of the elect? Of course not. Having the proper theological framework is not a part of the Gospel, though it does allow one to better understand the nature of Scripture. Jesus said that one has to be "born again" in order to be saved. he didn't say "born again and have the right theology" or "born again and be baptized" or "born again and {insert your favorite religious "thingy" here}". However, the one who is "born again" will "do the will of (His) Father who is in heaven".

[Jerry_M]

I appreciate your apology. It could be due to the fact that Southern Baptists, as well as other Bible believing Christians, believe that everyone is deserving of hell, and that everyone would go to hell except for the intervention of Jesus Christ.

[RadioAstronomer]

There was a thread a while back on the release of all the Dead Sea Scrolls. There was mention of basically an evolution of the books of the Old Testament over time as peoples understanding grew about the environment around them. So literally the Bible has evolved too. This in no way detracts from a faith in God. It just goes to show the Bible is not a science text.

[Jerry_M]

Re 210. Maybe you should let reboot explain his faith. he certainly didn't come across (to me at least) as you describe.

[StolarStorm]

It comes down to G-d's desire for us to have free will. If G-d chose to know all, he would... I believe that he chooses not to know so that he does not remove free will. He could know but chooses not to, so that he changes nothing that would remove our self-determination. Remember, he created us because he was lonely and for love. Both those reasons are served by free will... otherwise we would just be animals or automatons acting out his will at all times.

I came up with that myself so don't blame anyone else for the convuluted logic of that. :) But I do believe it.