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To: Jerry_M
You're right, I don't really have a good grasp of Calvinism. It just seems pointless to even consider who the "elect" are or even to create a sect that even discusses it as Calvininist do. If things are pre-ordained... and yet we must all still hope/strive for salvation anyway... and G_d already knows who will succeed (and I don't dispute that) why should we even dwell on that aspect.

I'm not sure I worded that question correctly... If the elect are already known.... so be it... but whats the point of having a sect based on that belief... its seems fruitless as you can't change anything by that understanding. It just strikes me as a philosophy that could be used to create a horror... a horror of elitism. "We're better because G-d has already for-ordained our salvation... we are your superiors." Do Calvinist believe that only Calvinist can be of the "elect"?

I have to admit that Calvinism has always fascinated me.

202 posted on 12/26/2001 1:14:39 PM PST by StolarStorm
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To: StolarStorm
I'm not sure I worded that question correctly... If the elect are already known.... so be it... but whats the point of having a sect based on that belief... its seems fruitless as you can't change anything by that understanding. It just strikes me as a philosophy that could be used to create a horror... a horror of elitism. "We're better because G-d has already for-ordained our salvation... we are your superiors." Do Calvinist believe that only Calvinist can be of the "elect"?

Do you believe that God is present to all time? That He knows the beginning and the end? (There are lots of people that deny God's foreknowlege ,that is what I am asking about). I think that is usually pretty good common ground for most Christians. (My particular church does not have a doctrinal position on it..that is why I asked you)

215 posted on 12/26/2001 1:43:40 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: StolarStorm; RnMomof7; CCWoody
""We're better because G-d has already for-ordained our salvation... we are your superiors." Do Calvinist believe that only Calvinist can be of the "elect"?

I think that you will notice that most Calvinists recognize just how vile and undeserving they really are, and marvel at God's grace in saving them inspite of themselves. It could be that Calvinists are the only ones who truly know the horrific nature of sin and depravity.

Does one have to be a Calvinist in order to one of the elect? Of course not. Having the proper theological framework is not a part of the Gospel, though it does allow one to better understand the nature of Scripture. Jesus said that one has to be "born again" in order to be saved. he didn't say "born again and have the right theology" or "born again and be baptized" or "born again and {insert your favorite religious "thingy" here}". However, the one who is "born again" will "do the will of (His) Father who is in heaven".

216 posted on 12/26/2001 1:45:29 PM PST by Jerry_M
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