What's your view on the accuracy of the Bible? - FREEP THIS POLL!!!

MSNBC.Com ^ | 12/24/2001 | MSNBC.Com

[Bobby777]

what ever your views are FReep this poll!!! let's keep this thing bumped ... the score is terrible ... c'mon Christians ... it's on the left ... a little bit down ...

[SpookBrat]

You sparked my curiosity so I have spent some time reading and trying to figure out the Greek definitions of the words used here. I did so with an open mind because I have never studied this scripture in depth. I have to agree with JeepInMazar. I read several different Biblical translations and several said “over all creation”, but the KJV says “of all creation”. I read about a dozen commentaries and looked at several dictionaries, and they all seem to agree with several other posters here. I also agree with JeepInMazar that you have to take into account the context of the surrounding scriptures.

I’m cutting and pasting Mathew Henry because I couldn’t ever word this as well.

(2.) He is the first-born of every creature. Not that he is himself a creature; for it is proµtotokos paseµs ktiseoµs—born or begotten before all the creation, or before any creature was made, which is the scripture-way of representing eternity, and by which the eternity of God is represented to us: I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was; when there was no depth, before the mountains were settled, while as yet he had not made the earth, Prov. 8:23–26. It signifies his dominion over all things, as the first-born in a family is heir and lord of all, so he is the heir of all things, Heb. 1:2. The word, with only the change of the accent, proµtotokos, signifies actively the first begetter or producer of all things, and so it well agrees with the following clause. Vid. Isidor. Peleus. epist. 30 lib. 3. (3.) He is so far from beginning himself a creature that he is the Creator: For by him were all things created, which are in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, v. 16.

This following definition of first born came from Vine’s Dictionary.

firstborn" (from protos, "first," and tikto, "to beget"), is used of Christ as born of the Virgin Mary, Luk 2:7; further, in His relationship to the Father, expressing His priority to, and preeminence over, creation, not in the sense of being the "first" to be born. It is used occasionally of superiority of position in the OT; see Exd 4:22; Deu 21:16,17, the prohibition being against the evil of assigning the privileged position of the "firstborn" to one born subsequently to the "first" child. The five passages in the NT relating to Christ may be set forth chronologically thus: (a) Col 1:15, where His eternal relationship with the Father is in view, and the clause means both that He was the "Firstborn" before all creation and that He Himself produced creation (the genitive case being objective, as ver. 16 makes clear); (b) Col 1:18;

By the way, it is true that Jehovah’s Witnesses do try to use this verse to show that Jesus is not part of the God head, but I have never studied this like I should have before.

Blue Letter Bible

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

God's Word is 100% true. He meant what he said, and said what he meant!

That is correct. But as to exactly what he said, I have only second-hand, fallible human beings to communicate to me.

[barf]

Sadly the first book of the Bible was written by an early chapter of the Flat Earth Society totally without belivable foundation except for the ages which were measurements of lunar orbits. Jesus was an early magician who did not get an appreciative audience in the Romans. If one assumes that God is the Universe itself, he can not be proven wrong. The fact that man questions "why am I here?" is repeated for each reasoning species that has ever been or ever will be on this earth before he becomes extinct as all other preceding species have done and succeeding species will do.

[eazdzit]

Well you finally said it. You said.."No he is the firstborn of every creature the scriptures say".

Now if that is so, then he must be one of the creatures, or he couldn't be the firstborn of them. Right?

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

my God gave me a bible He translated for the English speaking people

I am sorry, King James I of England is not the God I worship.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

for each reasoning species that has ever been or ever will be on this earth

Please tell us the name of previous reasoning species on this earth, or is their existence just something you accept on faith.

[eazdzit]

Thank you very much SpookBrat, for putting in the time and effort you did.

You posted...."......(a) Col 1:15, where His eternal relationship with the Father is in view, and the clause means both that He was the "Firstborn" before all creation and that He Himself produced creation (the genitive case being objective, as ver. 16 makes clear); (b) Col 1:18;

This would indicate that the translation (of instead of before) is being challenged. I will have to do some work to see if I agree with the challenge.

Looks like a significant issue to me. Well worth finding out the truth about.

Spookbrat, you also stated...By the way, it is true that Jehovah’s Witnesses do try to use this verse to show that Jesus is not part of the God head, but I have never studied this like I should have before."

I agree that they use the verse with reference to his being born or procreated. My point has to do with his being of the creature's, hence created. I have never seen any of their literature refer to that point.

Cheers:^) I will ping you all when I finish my research. Hope you all had a merry Christmas.

[aruanan]

As a geologist I would have to say that the Bible was never intended to be a scientific explanation of the world.

What do you mean by a "scientific explanation of the world"? Do you mean naturalistic? If so, then it's not scientific.

[Leonine]

Wish I had time to chat! Gotta go. The dialect in view here is koine, not classical Greek. Happy Holidays!

[aruanan]

It is a she, and she is Jewish, so this is an outsider's view.

I can't remember the name of the particular theologian I'm thinking of, but I remember that although he wasn't a believer, he clearly stated what the New Testament theology was saying rather than just morphing it into something in the image of his beliefs. Too bad there isn't more of that kind of objectivity around.

[womanvet]

I am sorry, King James I of England is not the God I worship

King James VI of Scotland merely commissioned the translating. He did not do it himself.

Oh, yes, sorry...I forgot he also took the English throne...

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

King James VI of Scotland merely commissioned the translating.

Exactly, it was translated by his authority, and under his political - theological control.

[Elsie]

I believe No# 1 if it is refering to the KING JAMES 1611 AV. I don't believe all the other new age versions in English. They disagree with the King James and they disagree with each other.

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I would presume from the above that you do not watch the news on tv or read about it in newspapers, for they, likewise, are 'different' from each other in their reporting of the 'same' story.

I have questions........

If, the KJV is so accurate, how on Earth did we get SO many Protestant denominations that disagree on how to 'interpret' the Bible?

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I'm afraid that some people have made an IDOL of the KJV! How can a native speaking German be saved? Or a Russian, a Pole, Ruwandan, Spaniard or Nepalese? Do THEY have bibles translated into their language from the KJV or from the Greek and Hebrew?

Do the French have a KJV equivalent? The King Louie perhaps?

[Elsie]

The question.......
Hebrews 1:5
For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father " ? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?

The answer........
None.

[Elsie]

Genesis 1:26-27
 26.  Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
 27.  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

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1 Timothy 3:16
Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

 

Hebrews 10
 5.  Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;
 6.  with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased.

 

 

Hebrews 2:14
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil--

[Lilly]

100% Accurate

[a contender]

Excellent Post SpookBrat, but you are posting to deaf ears. This apostate easdzit, is totally gone. He has fallen away from the truth, he will never be able to come to repentance now. If he ever was saved, God has now put him on the shelf. You are one of many that have put proof positives in his face, only for him to ignore the facts and references. He is an APOSTATE. I'm through with him.

[a contender]

Great post too Elsie, check post #137...

[SpookBrat]

Any thoughts? :)

[a contender]

You have a lot of questions, I'll try to answer some of them. Before 1901 there were two major denominations in America. Methodist and Baptist. If you travel much in a car, you can drive all over the country and see these old churches (most still standing) side by side (or within a mile of each other). There were very few Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Catholics,(the obvious cults like jehovahs witness, seventh day adventists, mormons) and no charasmatics before 1901. Some thing happened in 1901 to set off a mass wave of new doctrines. The first new age bible called ASV, American Standard Version slipped into the back of the pews in the Methodist and Baptist churches all across America. The ASV was created from the Westcott and Hort greek text that those two created out of thin air. It did not exist. The KING JAMES 1611 AV was translated from a greek text called the Texus Receptus (which is actually a compilation of more than 5280 manuscripts) which the church has used for 2000 years. Its also called the Majority Text or the Received Text. All new age bibles come from the Westcott and Hort fictitous greek text. By the way, if you go to your library and look up mystics and spiritualists these two mens names pop up all over the place. Thats why we have now so many differnt "denominations" in the last 100 years. These new age bibles do not have the same "jesus" in them. They are similar, but not the same. The serpent is very subtil, he moves very slowly so you don't notice him. As for other languages, the french have a pure bible from the Texus Receptus called the French Olivet, the spanish have one from the Texus Receptus called the 1909 de Valera. The germans have one called the Lutheran Bible. There are more for more languages but the main point is which greek text they come from. If you have a new age bible look up Isaiah 14:12 and see if Lucifers name is there. I can tell you it has been removed, and a title for Our Lord Jesus Christ has been put in its place. Satan has played a little trick on the churches in the last 100 years. Jesus said "if you love me ye will keep my words" and he also said "my sheep hear my voice". We that believe the KING JAMES 1611 AV can spot the snake in the new age bible versions. Pray about this and ask God to show you the truth.