Death toll in Gaza could exceed 186,000: The Lancet

TRT World ^ | 7/8/24 | TRT World

[hardspunned]

By June 19, 2024, the Palestinian Health Ministry in Gaza reported that 37,396 people had been killed in Gaza since last October, according to a report by the prestigious medical journal The Lancet.

These figures, while contested by Israeli authorities, are supported by Israeli intelligence, the UN, and WHO, and are backed by independent analyses comparing changes in UNRWA staff deaths with those reported by the Ministry.

The destruction of infrastructure in Gaza has made data collection increasingly difficult, forcing the Health Ministry to rely on information from media sources and first responders.

As of May 10, 2024, 30 percent of the 35,091 deaths were unidentified.

[piasa]

Don’t forget puppies and kittens. They’re people, too.

[piasa]

The Lancet.... I seem to remember something about the Lancet’s inaccurate calculations about Covid....

[piasa]

During prisoner swaps even the Palis admit one Israeli is worth a ton of Palestinians.

[wny]

5 to 10 actual civilians....

[dagunk]

No good Nazis and the logic applies here also. The children grow up to be terrorists or breeders of terrorists well breed the hate. Israel has to push them all out into Jordan or Lebanon.

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Mediterranean Sea.

[Texas Fossil]

TRT World is a worthless source.

So is the UN.

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Live blog: Half of UN facilities in Gaza destroyed in Israeli war — agency

https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/live-blog-half-of-un-facilities-in-gaza-destroyed-in-israeli-war-agency-18181183

UN UNRWA Facilities in Gaza are operated by almost all Palestinian hires inside Gaza.

Palestinian’s Lie, UNRWA Lies, UN Lies. Believe nothing they say or print.

[Texas Fossil]

“TRT World is a 24-hour international English-language news channel based in Istanbul, Turkey.”

---

Since Erdogan became the head of the Turkish Government, there has been no real news in their media. But as far back as the Ottoman Empire it was the same.

There was a period when the Kemalist’s were in control, it was not as bad but there is no truth in any media created inside of Turkey. FACT.

So, TRT is worthless as far as news is concerned. It is Pure state approved Propaganda.

[moovova]

Good start.

[Seruzawa]

Lol. The Lancet. A medical journal. What do they know? Well, they know how to attack vitamin salesmen. They know how to defend corrupt drug companies. And apparently they forward Hamas lies.

[Zathras]

More likely about 2000.

[VanShuyten]

“ Starvation accomplishes the goal more efficiently.”

Liar. No starvation in Gaza.

[yelostar]

It's interesting to look at (what are alleged to be) the actual numbers of casualties - going back as far as possible.

1948 is a good place to start, since it marks the creation of the State of Israel. There was plenty of bloodshed leading up to 1948, but accurate numbers on that will probably be harder to find.

Understanding the history - and the lopsidedness - of casualties and losses:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

Running these numbers puts Palestinian casualties and losses at about 80% vs 20% on the Israeli side.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/05/18/the-israel-palestine-conflict-has-claimed-14000-lives-since-1987

1987 - 2021, showing Palestinian vs Israeli deaths - overwhelmingly on the Palestinian side.

Below chart showing every fatality from September 2000 to July 2014:

https://www.vox.com/2014/7/14/5898581/chart-israel-palestine-conflict-deaths

It's no secret that the death tolls in the Israel-Palestine conflict are lopsided, with Palestinians far more likely to be killed than Israelis. But just how lopsided is driven home by looking at the month-to-month fatality statistics, which the Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem has been tracking since September 2000. Those numbers also tell some important stories about the conflict, how it's changed, and maybe where it's going.

…the overwhelming majority of the deaths are Palestinian, and have been for the almost 14 years since B'Tselem began tracking. Overall, the group has recorded 8,166 conflict-related deaths, of which 7,065 are Palestinian and 1,101 Israeli. That means 87 percent of deaths have been Palestinian and only 13 percent Israeli. Put another way, for every 15 people killed in the conflict, 13 are Palestinian and two are Israeli. (Statistics for the past two months are from United Nations Office for the Coordinator of Humanitarian Affairs.)

That number is even more staggering when you consider that there are about twice as many Israelis as there are Palestinians. This means, very roughly, that a Palestinian person has been 15 times more likely to be killed by the conflict than an Israeli person. Of course the conflict impacts Palestinians and Israelis far beyond just conflict deaths, but these statistics help show how utterly disproportionate the conflict has become in its toll.

The disparity has widened dramatically over time. Since January 2005, when the conflict began to change dramatically, it has killed 4,006 people, of whom 168 have been Israeli and 3,838 Palestinian. That means that, since January 2005, only four percent of those killed have been Israeli, and 96 percent Palestinian. Since January 2005, in other words, the conflict has killed 23 Palestinians for every one Israeli it claims.

A 76-year conflict - with casualties and deaths that are severely skewed in one direction - makes us wonder how remarkable it is that the political-nationalist entity known as the State of Israel is continually portrayed as a victim, ignoring the fact that it has been hammering the crap out of the Palestinian people for 3/4 of a century - aided, abetted and financed by the United States.

[VanShuyten]

A gang of three attacks my friends and me. They shoot and wound my friend , but I kill two of them.

“Disproportionate” response?

[yelostar]

No offense, but I don't see the beneficial use of hypotheticals with this particular argument - since it is genuine conflict, ongoing for decades, and complex in its origin and history.

For 76 years, Israel has enjoyed huge military, intelligence and technical advantages. So either its military/intel framework is abysmally incompetent, or there is another (undefined) objective at work here.

[jjotto]

Yeah, IDF General Staff, INSS, unelected Supreme Court and Kaplan Force are willing to sacrifice tens of thousands of Israeli lives to impose God-hating socialist self-styled Ashkenazi aristocracy on Israel regardless of election results.

[Gaffer]

They KNEW or their parents KNEW. They knew and did nothing. They helped with the terroristic attacks either by direct help, tacit silence or supporting them otherwise by helping them hide, hide the entrances to their tunnels or help create false sympathy from world press and sympathizers.

[Paul R.]

Wait a minute - 1st you complain that the Israelis are unfairly competent, then you complain (in the next sentence!) that they are either “abysmally incompetent, or there is another (undefined) objective at work here.”

That’s not gonna wash.

Further thoughts:

The Palis are just the tip of the spear, while the Israelis are mostly (mostly) their own spear. Even looking at backers doesn’t change this: If the mullahs in Iran find it to advance their objectives, they’ll burn every Pali, every Houthi, and more. The US, under any President since we began significantly supporting Israel, would not do such to Israel, hell, we would not even do it to those Iranian surrogates.

Yes, I keep in mind that the purpose of a military is to kill people and break things, should it’s deterrent objective fail.

Observation additionally shows that a significant number of Palis (and Muslim terrorists in general) are only deterred by one thing: Their own death B4 they accomplish their objectives. This is the on the ground types, not the leadership. The leadership usually value their own lives, but no one else’s.

Also it must be kept in mind that most of the Pali “missions” over the years have been suicide missions, whether immediately (suicide bomber) or otherwise. (Raiders getting cut down on the beach is but one example.) The Israelis are not suicidal.

And most of all: Proportionality arguments are nonsense.

[DoughtyOne]

There’s absolutely no way 186,000 people have been killed.

That’s utter nonsense.

Just a few weeks ago they stated 32,000 and that was cut in
half within days.

These are some of the most blatant Limburger cheese numbers, I’ve ever seen, and folks just gobble it up.

[yelostar]

...'abysmally incompetent' - was intentional hyperbole.

Of course Israel has a top-notch military and intelligence force.

The American taxpayer has shelled out hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars in aid to Israel, yet has little to show for it, just unending conflict, and the promise of funding in perpetuity. How many billions did the Iron Dome cost? How effective was it last October 7?

Israel has not provided any plausible justification for its lapses. I don't know about anyone else, but I think that the hundreds of billions of US taxpayer dollars they have received over decades demands that they give an explanation. But no, just hand-wringing, finger-pointing, head-shaking and excuses.

https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts

What is Israel’s qualitative military edge (QME)?

QME has been a conceptual backbone of U.S. military aid to Israel for decades, and it was formally enshrined in U.S. law in 2008 [PDF]. It requires the U.S. government to maintain Israel’s ability “to defeat any credible conventional military threat from any individual state or possible coalition of states or from non-state actors, while sustaining minimal damage and casualties.” QME is based on NATO military planning vis-a-vis a potential conflict with the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact countries during the Cold War.

Under the 2008 law, the United States must ensure that any weapons it provides to other countries in the Middle East do not compromise Israel’s QME. In several cases, this has required the United States to provide Israel with offsetting weaponry as part of larger regional arms sales. QME has also ensured that Israel is the first in the region to receive access to the most sophisticated U.S. military weapons and platforms, such as the F-35 stealth fighter, of which Israel has fifty.

This is buried in the Naval Vessel Transfer Act of 2008.

And most of all: Proportionality arguments are nonsense.

Unless it's a serious misunderstanding of how of modern warfare is conducted, generally speaking - losses, casualties, fatalities - have consistently been used as a gauge of success vs failure. When the losses are mostly on the other side, then you're winning.

Based on the numbers, Israel has been successful. It is a wealthy, modern, technology-savy country, with a first-rate military and intelligence force. It is far from being a victim.