Posted on 06/27/2024 4:55:18 AM PDT by MtnClimber
The only practicable way to avoid another near-one million dead and wounded would be a settlement, however unpopular.
Nearly eleven months ago, in August 2023, the New York Times reported that U.S. officials had estimated that some 500,000 Russians and Ukrainians had been killed, wounded, or missing in the then 18-month Ukrainian War.
Both Russia and Ukraine underreport their losses. Hundreds of thousands of additional casualties have followed in the 28 months of fighting.
In the West, the mere mention of a negotiated settlement is considered a dangerous appeasement of Russia’s flagrant aggression. In Russia, anything short of victory would be seen as synonymous with the collapse of the Putin regime.
Yet as the war nears two and a half years this summer, some facts are no longer much in dispute.
Controversy still arises over the circumstances of the 2014 overthrow of Ukraine’s pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych.
Russia charges that the West engineered the “Revolution of Dignity”—an effort to westernize the former Soviet republic, to expand the borders of Europe right to the doorstep of Russia, and eventually to fully arm Ukraine as a member of NATO.
Westerners counter that most Ukrainians wished to be part of Europe and independent from Russian bullying—and they had a perfect right to ask to join either NATO or the EU or both despite anticipated escalating tensions.
After the heroic Ukrainian defeat of the 2022 Russian bid to take Kyiv, there have been few significant territorial gains by either side.
Like the seesaw bloodbath on the Western Front of World War I, neither side has developed the momentum to force the other to negotiate or grant concessions.
As nuclear Russian threats against Europe mount, NATO is seeking to regain deterrence capabilities by boosting defense budgets, incorporating robust frontline nations Sweden and Finland....
(Excerpt) Read more at amgreatness.com ...
“It Will Be A Shock”: Ukraine Lost 500,000 Soldiers In War So Far, Nearly 30,000 Per Month: Lutsenko Claims
The Eurasian Times ^ | January 7, 2024 | Staff
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/it-will-be-a-shock-ukraine-lost-500000-soldiers-in-war/
LOL! Not with the Ukes press ganging as much cannon fodder as they possibly can.
Lutsenko is a private citizen since 2019, who was previously charged with embezzlement and abuse of office.
Interesting to note, Trumps latest Peace deal freezes the front lines, which happens to be the ethnic Russian provinces.
Vlad stated on day one elections for these Russian provinces, a vote for Independence from Ukraine.
It appears Trump’s “ deal” will follow the Minsk agreements that the Ukies and EU violated. You know, the deal Merkel publicly stated that was made to buy the West time to arm up Ukraine.
The West simply can not be trusted, and it is clear Vlad will keep his ethnic Russian provinces. All that is needed now is a change in the Ukie Constitution:
No NATO.
Vlad is accomplishing everything he stated on day one, with the exception of wiping out the Ukie Neo Nazi’s…..now how to handle the huge DMZ? …the Russians are calling for a 300-500 kilometer Dead Zone. Why so deep? Because this brain dead administration gave the Ukies long range missiles, the longer range missiles given : the deeper the Dead Zone.
Why does the collective West keep committing suicide?
I would like to see analysis by someone who understands the Slavic mind, or by someone who at least admits that he does not understand the Slavic mind. I realize that the facts that are cited in the thread are directed at the western mind as are the main talking points in VDH’s article.
Are we trying to predict what is going to happen?
Why do we need to justify either side?
There was long thread the other day about name calling on FR. I appreciated the sentiment shared. My question is, why do you think that name calling works? If Bobl calls someone a “Zeeper” does that do anything? If somebody calls him a “Russian propagandist” does that make him go away?
(Full disclosure- BobL is a FReeper whom I hold in high regard.)
There are NO majority ethnic Russian provinces in Ukraine, except for Crimea.
Also, you're assuming every ethnic Russian in Ukraine wanted to be united with Russia, which is false.
📌
I love Hanson, but his analysis is based on the traditional Fake News conglomerate. Ukraine is definitely falling, cannot match recruitment and weapons manufacturing of Russia, has insufficient air defense and no real air force, the electrical grid is dying in the Ukraine - and yet Hanson says neither side has ‘momentum’.
Absolutely correct, Brian.
The current idea put about by Putin et.al. is a myth constructed by Russian "philosphers" like Ilyin, Gumilev and Dugin, all of whom are influential, but by any objective standard are complete loonies, building their political theories on pagan mysticism and cosmic rays. Not to mention being crypto-fascists and virulent anti-Semites.
As good a history of modern Ukraine as exists is Faith Hillis' Children of Rus'. Another is Timothy Snyders' The Reconstruction of Nations: Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus, 1569-1999 which just arrived here from Amazon. I'm working on a book about Gumilev, but I may drop it and start Snyder. I've about had enough of Gumilev. Nasty man.
I'm sick to death hearing that blatant lie.
https://cepa.org/article/dont-let-russia-fool-you-about-the-minsk-agreements/
Since some of you won't open the link, here are some excerpts:
"4. Russia is in violation of the Minsk Agreements. The deals require a ceasefire, withdrawal of foreign military forces, disbanding of illegal armed groups, and returning control of the Ukrainian side of the international border with Russia to Ukraine, all of this under OSCE supervision. Russia has done none of this. It has regular military officers as well as intelligence operatives and unmarked “little green men” woven into the military forces in Eastern Ukraine. The LPR and DPR forces are by any definition “illegal armed groups,” that have not been disbanded. The ceasefire has barely been respected by the Russian side for more than a few days at a time."
"5. Russian-led forces prevent the OSCE from accomplishing its mission in Donbas as spelled out in the Minsk Agreements. It is an unstated irony in Vienna — understood by every single diplomatic mission and member of the international staff — that Russia approves the mandate of the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) in Ukraine when it votes in Vienna, but then blocks implementation of that same mission on the ground in Ukraine. Because Russia is a member of the OSCE, and the SMM wants to preserve what little access it has to the occupied territories, the mission is guarded in what it says about ceasefire violations and restrictions on its freedom of movement. Privately, however, they acknowledge that some 80% of such violations and restrictions come from the Russian-controlled side of the border, and those that occur on the Ukrainian side are largely for safety reasons (e.g., avoiding mined approaches to bridges.)"
That would be historian Timothy Snyder, who speaks Russian, Polish, Czech and Ukrainian fluently, lives and teaches much of the time in Vienna, and has written extensively on eastern and central Europe. But he's anathema here because he also teaches at Yale.
Yup, Russia's position was that it didn't have to comply since it wasn't a part of the conflict. Unbelievable
Zakharova noted that the Minsk Package of Measures made no mention of any obligations by Russia, but specified the parties to the conflict, which are the Ukrainian authorities and Ukraine’s armed forces on the one hand and the representatives of certain districts of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions and their militias on the other, do have such obligations. Sept 6, 2021
The hordes of military age males I see every day driving around like a-holes in UA-plated cars here in Germany must be a figment of my imagination then. OK.
Merkel is on record stating that the Minsk agreements were created by the EU and West to buy time in arming up Ukraine for a war with Russia.
Preplanned, premeditated war.
Name the treaty between Russia and Ukraine that would stop Russia from invading.
Shades of April Glaspie and Saddam’s Iraq.....
Thanks for the compliment! Regarding the term Zeeper, it’s a bit derogatory, I guess, but it’s also shorthand for people who support Zelensky, which I assume is the case of Zeepers, since they clearly want Ukraine to win. Saying their on Biden’s Payroll, or support Biden, or are Deep State, is something that no one here admits to, so it is uncalled for (which I admit to having done several times after being insulted here by some of the nastier Zeepers).
On the other hand, calling someone a “Putin Puppet” or claiming someone is on “Putin’s Payroll”, is far different, as it excludes any middle ground. In other words, their claim is that if you’re not all-in on their side of the war, then you must be working for Putin. There is no room for people to be against our involvement in the war, and that’s it. That’s where I stand, and I know know of only one person on my side who has openly stated that he supports Russia, everyone else simply wants us out of there.
So how can anyone be against our involvement in Ukraine? Here are 20 bad things that have happened to the West because of its involvement in Ukraine, rather than even the war itself:
1. Russia now allies with China and North Korea
2. Russia closer to Iran
3. Russian economy now larger than Germany and Japan
4. Europe’s economy destroyed
5. Petrodollar gone
6. Europe virtually empty of weapons
7. US badly depleted
8. South Korea depleted of artillery
9. Delays in keeping allies armed (starting with Israel and Taiwan)
10. US “wonder-weapons” defeated on the battlefield
11. Russia’s military greatly expanded, permanently
12. Russia’s military initially shown weak...it was never a threat to Europe
13. Nuclear power plants put in danger by West
14. Energy prices in Europe through the roof
15. More of Ukraine being lost by the day
16. Russian military visits Cuba
17. Russian high-level nuclear alert
18. Russia now battle-hardened (tougher for Redditors to fight them)
19. Russia’s military advancement is far faster than that of the West (combat experience has that effect).
20. Russia may bring in troops from North Korea to fight for them
Zeepers will not allow it. They will send every last US dollar, and when they’re all gone, they’ll send every single man and woman 18-65 years old to finally “get” Putin.
Think of it: Roman legions, Viking Berserkers, Arab Fedayeen, all in the service to our glorious Zelensky!
Then, we are going to steal all their money and give it to Zelensky! Roman Denarii, Viking poohs, Arab dinars, but most importantly Putin's underpants!
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