I would like to see analysis by someone who understands the Slavic mind, or by someone who at least admits that he does not understand the Slavic mind. I realize that the facts that are cited in the thread are directed at the western mind as are the main talking points in VDH’s article.
Are we trying to predict what is going to happen?
Why do we need to justify either side?
There was long thread the other day about name calling on FR. I appreciated the sentiment shared. My question is, why do you think that name calling works? If Bobl calls someone a “Zeeper” does that do anything? If somebody calls him a “Russian propagandist” does that make him go away?
(Full disclosure- BobL is a FReeper whom I hold in high regard.)
That would be historian Timothy Snyder, who speaks Russian, Polish, Czech and Ukrainian fluently, lives and teaches much of the time in Vienna, and has written extensively on eastern and central Europe. But he's anathema here because he also teaches at Yale.
Thanks for the compliment! Regarding the term Zeeper, it’s a bit derogatory, I guess, but it’s also shorthand for people who support Zelensky, which I assume is the case of Zeepers, since they clearly want Ukraine to win. Saying their on Biden’s Payroll, or support Biden, or are Deep State, is something that no one here admits to, so it is uncalled for (which I admit to having done several times after being insulted here by some of the nastier Zeepers).
On the other hand, calling someone a “Putin Puppet” or claiming someone is on “Putin’s Payroll”, is far different, as it excludes any middle ground. In other words, their claim is that if you’re not all-in on their side of the war, then you must be working for Putin. There is no room for people to be against our involvement in the war, and that’s it. That’s where I stand, and I know know of only one person on my side who has openly stated that he supports Russia, everyone else simply wants us out of there.
So how can anyone be against our involvement in Ukraine? Here are 20 bad things that have happened to the West because of its involvement in Ukraine, rather than even the war itself:
1. Russia now allies with China and North Korea
2. Russia closer to Iran
3. Russian economy now larger than Germany and Japan
4. Europe’s economy destroyed
5. Petrodollar gone
6. Europe virtually empty of weapons
7. US badly depleted
8. South Korea depleted of artillery
9. Delays in keeping allies armed (starting with Israel and Taiwan)
10. US “wonder-weapons” defeated on the battlefield
11. Russia’s military greatly expanded, permanently
12. Russia’s military initially shown weak...it was never a threat to Europe
13. Nuclear power plants put in danger by West
14. Energy prices in Europe through the roof
15. More of Ukraine being lost by the day
16. Russian military visits Cuba
17. Russian high-level nuclear alert
18. Russia now battle-hardened (tougher for Redditors to fight them)
19. Russia’s military advancement is far faster than that of the West (combat experience has that effect).
20. Russia may bring in troops from North Korea to fight for them