After Fighting Ukraine Aid, Trump Says Biden Will ‘Give’ Ukraine to Putin: Donald Trump suggested he would do more to protect the country from Russia, seeking to flip the script on the president, who has been calling for more military aid for months.

For many months, President Biden has been rallying global leaders to provide more military aid to Ukraine and pressing Congress to pass a multibillion-dollar aid package to help the country beat back Russian aggression. Former President Donald J. Trump has been undermining that effort, pressing Republicans to thwart it.

But on Wednesday, Mr. Trump tried to flip the script, suggesting that he would do more to protect Ukraine than Mr. Biden, who he said would effectively cede Ukraine as a gift to President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia.

Speaking at a campaign event in North Charleston, S.C., Mr. Trump said that, under a Biden presidency, Mr. Putin is “going to be given everything he wants, including Ukraine. That’s a gift. He’s got a gift.”

Then Mr. Trump — who often positively invokes Mr. Putin as an authoritarian strongman, and who acknowledged in his speech that they got along — doubled down, saying that Mr. Biden “is going to give” Ukraine to Mr. Putin.

Mr. Biden has repeatedly vowed to help Ukraine defend itself for “as long as it takes,” pledging that “our commitment to Ukraine will not weaken.” Mr. Trump, by contrast, has previously said that he would consider letting Russia “take over” parts of Ukraine in a negotiated deal to end the war.

A day earlier, the Senate, in a bipartisan vote, approved an additional $60.1 billion in assistance to Kyiv to help it fight Russia’s invasion, part of a long-debated foreign aid package for Ukraine and Israel.

- - -

NOTE: Zelenskyy is not mentioned.

Re “leaked Nuland phone calls”

02/07/2014 Friday - Brussels, Kyiv, Moscow React To Leaked Nuland Phone Call - EXCERPTS:

"U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland apparently uses strong language to dismiss EU involvement in Ukraine and doubts opposition leader Vitali Klitschko's ability to occupy a senior government post."
In the leaked phone call, which seems to be between Nuland and the U.S. Ambassador to Kyiv, Geoffrey Pyatt, she uses the strongest possible language to express her disdain for European inaction in Ukraine.
In the call, Nuland also seems to express reluctance to grant UDAR opposition leader Klitschko a spot in a future government, saying he is inexperienced. That view appears to differ from EU heavyweight Germany, whose Foreign Ministry backs Klitschko over Batkivshchina's Arseniy Yatsenyuk.
The EU response may be relatively muted because of its own reported leak. The same YouTube channel that posted the leaked U.S. call on [Tuesday] February 4 [2014], posted a second recording that appears to catch Helga Schmid, deputy to EU foreign-policy chief Catherine Ashton, complaining about the United States to the EU's ambassador to Kyiv, Jan Tombinski.
The recording appears to show Schmid expressing annoyance at the United States for criticizing the EU for being "too soft" to impose sanctions and other pressure tactics against Ukraine. "It's very annoying," she adds.
Some EU observers have speculated that the synchronized leaks appear aimed at driving a wedge between the EU and the United States, or simply discrediting both sides -- a theory that, for some, only bolsters suspicion that Russia is behind the leaks.
The leak scandals come at a time when the EU is grappling with its own internal divisions over Ukraine. Many member states are eager to move forward with sanctions and have grown increasingly angry with countries, such as Germany, that are stalling.

- - -

02/10/2014

Leaked phone call on Ukraine lays bare Washington’s gangsterism - World Socialist Web Site - EXCERPT:

What the tape makes clear, however, is that Washington is employing methods of international gangsterism, including violence, to effect a political coup aimed at installing a regime that is fully subordinate to US geo-strategic interests.
[ - the socialists' perspective]

Securing Ukraine's border and funding their corrupt government by pouring billions into their country is more important to my government and ingrate zeepers than helping my Brother Vets and me.

Yes, vets are on the streets because in last years US budget of 6.5 Trillion, 100 Billion was spent(large part included weapons sent) on supporting Ukraine. Okay.

Many Veterans with serious mental illness are at risk of homelessness because of substance use, unstable employment, and incarceration.

https://www.research.va.gov/topics/homelessness.cfm

You nailed it.

There are a lot of conflicts around the world, usually about 40 of them at any given point in time.

***As an American, I care that “this” country is secure, this country has its freedom, this country is wealthy.***

There are many hyphenated Americans today, or globohomo types that believe we have some sort of obligation to help where they feel we should because someone managed to sell them a sob story.

They always resort to some conceptual noble cause as if it's our duty to fight for democracy, sovereignty, human rights, and enforce peace around the world. No it isn't, and in fact most of the time we are IMPOSING ourselves on an issue with two sides where we simply choose one side over the other (Example Serbia and the conflict in the 90s), usually choosing the political expedient option that offers a quick military solution.

I am not an isolationist. But it's not our problem and in fact when our own government ignores the calls of it's own people (see illegal issue and Southern border) but blows hundreds of billions in a war it caused by miscalculating the risk, that is a very bad thing.

I didn't say Mr Z was mentioned but others were. The point being is that we are choosing the political winners and losers on Ukraine's political stage, and it is not out of the realm of possibility that Mr Z was picked by us.

What I did say is that an inexperienced, not independently wealthy, young, Jew in a nation unfavorable to that, that rises to power using the US MSM, big tech and social media is very likely “our boy.” Even if we don't want to look into that.

https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-cia-and-nsa-research-grants-for-mass-surveillance

https://www.kitklarenberg.com/p/how-cia-and-nsa-created-google

What I said, is that 2014 and Maiden was the tipping point. That is when Ukraine went from being in the Russian to our sphere of influence. But in either case, it's not really an independent nation.

Today you have a US bank and asset holding company running their finances in the background (JPMC and Blackrock), some of their key leaders were picked by us, and when a US VP wants a senior Ukrainian prosecutor looking into Hunters Burisma ties fired, guess what Ukraine does: https://oversight.house.gov/timeline/ukraine-11/biden-firing-ukraine-prosecutor-clip/

Some here mention bending over for Moscow, are they any more free and independent if they bend over for us even if this is to their own detriment?

Regards wanting to take Kiev.

I’m sure they would of taken it had the opportunity afforded itself. But it wasn’t their true objective.

If you want to know where a military plans on staying a long time, simply look at where they pour concrete.

Seriously, if they put up temper tents and lay runway matting, never replacing it, they don’t plan on staying. If they quickly begin pouring concrete an begin building a perminenet runway, bridges, fortifications, they plan on staying. But the Russians weren’t there long enough for that to be an indicator.

Other indicators are how they deal with the public. In the North they didn’t care much about the “hearts and minds” stuff because they are not looking for long term public support. In a war your Civil Affairs will coordinate with locals regards damages or things the locals could use (buying public favor). There you did see a difference.

Zeepers don’t care if the taxpayers of this country are stripped of every cent we have.

According to a Feb. 2023 report by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), we are funding the salaries of 618,000 Ukrainian educators, 517,000 health workers, and 56,500 first responders.

We are paying to sustain Ukraine’s critical healthcare services, meet its pension responsibilities for 9.8 million people, assist 1.3 million internally displaced persons, provide housing assistance to 4.1 million people, and provide social assistance to 240,000 low-income families and 480,000 persons with disabilities.

We subsidize Ukraine’s small businesses, buy seeds and fertilizer for Ukrainian farmers and fund divers who clear unexploded ammunition from the country’s rivers to make them safe again for swimming and fishing.

This, while MILLIONS of Americans can’t pay for food, heating bills, gas, housing, medical insurance, etc., due to our government’s policies. Also, while thousands of Americans including Veterans are homeless and living on the streets!

Zeepers only care about funding the Zelensky/Biden Money Laundering Machine. They view this country as Host for the Parasite known as Ukraine.

Our Free Republic means nothing to them.

Note: I will now be called named such as Putinpoofer, Ruzzzzzzian Farm Bot Troll, muscovite, an “America-hating pro-Russian propagandist, whose purpose is to see America defeated anywhere and everywhere possible” (as zeeper BroJoek labeled me) and worse, only because I don’t worship at the altar of Zelensky as do they.

Well done, two years into the war and you took "fortress avdiivka". The loss of avdiivka is not a surprise to anyone.

It should not be a surprise to anyone, just as the impossibility of Ukraine winning a war against Russia should not surprise anyone. Twenty years of active duty tells me that in a military conflict between Russia and Ukraine, Russia wins. Regardless of who is for or against either side, Russia wins. Regardless of who is better, more moral or more Christian than the other, Russia wins.

And yet,

https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4215544/posts

2-6-2024 10:00 P.M. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klJ-ldtx1jg
Ukraine has encircled a large portion of the Russian army in Avdiivka, and are currently wiping out the forces in the pocket and taking Russian POWs.
[...]

The Russians were encircled, desperate, and without hope. In what reality I do not know. That's some powerful hopium there.

I don't give a good hot damn who runs Ukraine. It is a neighborhood problem and it is not in my neighborhood. Ukraine is just proving that when you are not the baddest SOB in your valley, it is not the wisest idea to tell the baddest SOB in the valley that you are going to put an adversarial foreign military base on its border, with missiles aimed at said baddest SOB.

No[t] much has been made of Ukrainians dying, fascinating how meat waves of Russians is just meh. Time will tell.

Time will reveal that the one with artillery and ammunition destroys a whole lot more than those who do not have such things. With time, the enormity of what Zelensky has wrought upon Ukraine will come out in Ukraine, and he will either flee or be hanged by his own people.

Keeping the troops in Avdiivka until it became Avdeyevka was as stupid as what they did at the Azovstol plant. Your fantasies of meat waves is as silly as the Azovstal blather about their execution of the evacuation maneuver, otherwise known as surrender.

It is time for Ukraine to save Ukraine, if that is still possible. Russia has taken territory that produced most of the GDP. Ukraine will be lucky if it is not divided up among Romania, Hungary, and Poland. When the charity stops, Ukraine will find itself defeated, bankrupt, broken and demilitarized. The worse it gets, the less chance they have to survive as a nation state.

20 years of active-duty military experience and you are still ignorant of Ukraine, its intrepid military, and why Ukraine will be restored to its ‘91 borders.

The situation was much more dire two years into our own war for independence as the Brits had occupied MOST of our major cities. But the Brits wore out as the Americans would not give up and Ukrainians will not give up. The Russian, Buryat, and Chechen pigs and apes will go home. The illegal land and resource grab will not work and woodpusher and his Bolshevik cronies will cry and commiserate in their freedom hating fellowship.

There is much in your statement to consider, I spent almost 40 years in the military and had much the same thoughts about the Russian military abilities, but where I differ is this war has shown that belief to be mostly false.

The Russian gains have been made through tactics only successful against a military as lacking as Ukraine.

After two years they have not established air superiority. Their aircraft hide miles behind the lines, a tactic that would not be successful aginst NATO. They rely on massed mostly inaccurate artillery and massed human and equipment attacks, again something that would not be successful against NATO.

There is an artillery shell shortage because NATO doctrine does not depend on massed artillery, but massed aircraft and aircraft delivered ordinance.

In days or weeks, Russian aircraft would be destroyed, air fields wrecked, logistics gone. Artillery are sitting ducks to precision air launched weapons.

Take what has happened to the black fleet in two years, multiply by several factors and that would be the first days results.

The fact is, despite claims that putin is going in soft, the Russian military has its hands full with a much smaller opponent with a relatively small amount of western aid. Himars would not even be a minor part of NATO doctrine, yet look at what it has done to Russian military efforts.

At the beginning we were told Russia has unlimited ammo and equipment, which is why they are begging China, iran and nk for support.

The only reason russia has made the gains they have, remember they have lost half of the territory they initially took and since then gained two relatively small cities at huge costs, is because the west has held back support in the levels they had in a timely manner.

Imagine 15 patriot systems, the UShas over fifty, 500 Bradleys instead of 160, we have 5000, 500 abrams instead of 31, we have over 6000, atacms in June 22 when Russian assets were sitting ducks close to the front, cluster munitions in june22 instead of over half way through Ukrainian summer offensive, and f-16 training beginning day one instead of year and a half into war

No the inevitable victory of the Russians was and is not certain.

I hear that opinion all the time, personally it sounds like rationalizing failure.
Like a football team walking off the field after losing and saying that game wasn’t really important.

If Luhansk(sp?), and Donets and Kherson were really the goals, I have little doubts that if they had concentrated on just that early on they would have been successful.

The words and actions early on do not match the words and actions now.

“Our goal was to lose the first 6 games of the season, then win the rest”
They may win the “games “, but I seriously doubt that was the initial game plan.

Additionally to the point of avdiivka, taking it was only part of the plan, their tactics show that they wanted to encircle and destroy the Ukrainian forces, that didn’t happen, and the loses were massive. Incremental gains at high costs is what they have left
Will it succeed, perhaps, but the costs will leave the Russian military pretty hollow. If the time comes when the Russian Air Force is forced to retreat back further, and jdams rain on Russian troops, like the Russians are doing we will see

The Ukrainian’s are taking horribly high losses as well and in fact, they would theoretically have to have a 1:~3.4 ratio to just break even, when in reality the casualties are near to neck.

The Ukrainian’s simply don’t report their casualties and equipment losses.

See Newsweek leaks last year where you had some official and realistic casualties divulged. It clearly showed Ukraine lost nearly as many people as Russia and that was before they went on an offensive.

For the Russians it’s about creating a cost for Ukraine and the West. Otherwise, we’d just drag this out. The longer the war rages on, the more real estate Ukraine loses.

If you look at what Russia has taken, it’s all areas with a majority or very large ethnic Russian population. Kiev with a 75% nationalist sentiment does NOT fit that description. The Russians are not stupid.

A partisan / guerilla war where the local population despises you, an outside party is arming - funding - training folks, where it’s easy to hop a border and be in a safe space is not an easy fight. By taking areas that are sympathetic to them, they greatly reduce their headache in the long run.

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